New opperation or take over family tradition?

[PARKER MAPLE]

well guys i need a little help here, ive recently been preposed with an offer too take over my familys opperation. its an old opperation dating back with my grandfarther. he hasnt been doing it for a couple of years know, opperation consits of a 4x12 small bros. and apprx 1800 taps all on pipe. and all gravity, last time the sugar bush was tapped was about 5-6 years ago so i know that if we tap this season it will be a good one.. but ive always wanted too do my own thing my way if you can understand what i mean, one good thing about this is the expeirience i will get from it, hes has been doing it for 40 plus years, and doing very well . so what do i do??? thanks for the advice
maple rookie

[sapman]

Is there any way you can rehabilitate the old woods, without too much expense. And of course, add vacuum. Seems like you'd need an RO, too, with 1800 on vacuum. But it sounds like a decent opporunity, if the others aren't opposed to new technology.

Good luck!
Tim

[3rdgen.maple]

I took over an operation that my grandfather started then passed down to dad, couple years ago it was my turn. I do know what you are feeling. My dad is still with us and I really enjoy the time in the woods and in the sugarhouse with him and so do the kids. I too like doing things my way and I have to repress my fustration alot. I found that everytime I upgrade equipment If I show him how more efficient things get it helps. But He boils his way and I boil mine. He loves big wood and long lazy boils it drives me nuts. I want hot hot hot fast ripping boils. With that said I would not have done it different. I suck it up for the joy it brings him knowing a tradition has been passed down again. I think it would have broke his heart to start a new operation. Good points are the startup cost have been taken care of already. Learn as much as you can and improve from there. Use the money you would of spent for startup cost and invest it in improvements to the existing operation as you go. Hope this helps

[PerryW]

Another alternative would be to keep the gravity setup and get probably 300-500 gallons of syrup with just a small investment in a few rolls of tubing.

Start getting your wood in now as you will need at least 20 cords.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Hey Rookie,
I go along with the others, I am the main person in our operation now. It has been a family tradition for 6 generations. My Dad is 87 and I have been amazed at his acceptance of the changes (and approval). In 5 years I have changed evaporators, built a new sugar house, tapped new bushes, bought sap, gone to plastic line, gone to vacuum, bought an RO, bought a filter press. Does he miss the old way? I'm sure he does but so do I. He helps where he can in the new operation. My favorite comment of the last year, "Your Grandfather would be proud of what you are doing in the woods". I'm sure your Grandfather used innovative technology over the years and won't be upset if you do. Consult him often for advice and keep him in the loop about what you are doing and planning. He may be handing the lines to you but in some ways , it's still his baby and he wants to see it grow up right (just like he is proud of his grand kids, even if they are not just like him).
My 2 cents
Doug

[KenWP]

3rdgen-Maple my missis like to boil like your dad. She figures it saves wood to not feed the fire so much and when I am gone for a couple of hours things sort of slow down a bit. I am just happy she keeps the thing going so I can go to town and gather sap and tap more trees and such so I just sort of had to learn to ignore it and then really go to town when I get back to it myself.
Since I am a Quebecor for just under a year I unfortuantly do not have anybody to follow and ask guestions of.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Im for taking it over. The 5 year break in the operation is a good thing it gives you the excuse to improve and repair. If you were taking over the old farm truck and wanted to fix it up would they be mad if you put new style wheels and tires change flat bed to a dump box?
I would be inclined to get everything up and running as it is and any major changes (vacuum, releasers, filter press, finisher, bottler ) will be wecome changes get it running then evaluate and improve. OH and enjoy.

[C.Wilcox]

+1 for taking over the family business. As you say, it's already well established and there's nothing like success right out of the gate. I do hear you about wanting to do things your own way. I think just about everybody would feel the same as you, but even if you don't agree with the way things have been done in the past there's probably still some value in learning why they do it that way. Even if it's just to learn how not to do it. Besides, is there any reason you can't benefit from the existing experience/setup and still start up your own operation once the family business is running strong? I think they call that "diversification".

[BarrelBoiler]

Maple Rookie sounds like grand dad has already innovated some already using pipe to gather with. use his knowledge and experience with your youth and enthusiasium (sp) and good things are within reach. As my wife says when i come up with an crazy idea "show me the plan". tell them your ideas and listen to the feed back and there are always those times when if your running things an excutive desion is called for. if you "step in it" good or bad you learned something

if you understand that for 6-8 weeks every spring this is your life go for it


my nickle worths

[Jim Brown]

Maple Rookie; You have a chance that some of us didn't have. Someone to "show you the ropes". We started with just enough knowledge to get our self in trouble many many years ago and learned by 'trial and error'. Take the opportunity to spend time with the family and just soak up the knowledge and there will be plenty of time in the future to make your own mistakes.I'm blessed to have two of my kids(age 40 and 38) who want to carry on.When i'm gone they too will have plenty of time to make ther own mistakes.
I say take it on and learn as much as you can in the time you have. you will be calling the shots sooner than you may like and then wished you had been paying closer attention when Grand Dad was talking!

Just my thoughts

Jim

[maplecrest]

having grown up in the maple business and now being the 8th generation to sugar this farm currently with the 7th and 9th generations. as thompson stated a lot has happened and will continue to happen. i am going to have my third evaporator soon. i started on a 4x12 grimm wood fired drop flue and 1000 +- buckets. to a new sugar house in 1993 with a 6x14 leader oil fired rig with 3200 vacuum taps.since then the steamaway, filter press, ss tanks and drums, addition to sugar house. r/o and this last season 7000 vacuum taps.this comming season a new 5x14 thunderbolt evap.and working on agreements for more taps. had a future sugar bush logged out this winter i hope to have on line in 7 to 10 years. there is not a day that goes by that i do not do something maple related. it is a 365 day a year thrill ride.not just 6 weeks in the spring

[PerryW]

What an exciting opportunity!

I think you have to ask yourself whether you want to:

a) invest $20,000 or $30,000 and upgrade to new tubing, vacuum, R.O., Steamaway, Filter Press, etc and go into Maple as your primary income source ....

b) Or invest $1,000-3,000 and continue with the gravity tubing, and 4x12 and keep maple more of a income-producing hobby.

I would advise making an inventory of all the existing equipment (evap, tanks, filtering system, tubing, etc) and see how much of it is usable and what investment is required. Were the pans cleaned when last used? Are the taps still plugged in?

Also familiarize yourself with the existing saplines. Walk them with a chainsaw and survey flagging to cut up deadfall and flag up problem areas that must be replaced or repaired and look for potential expansion.

[PARKER MAPLE]

well guys thank you for opening my eyes, and also for awnsering alot of the questions i had. i think im going to make up my mind this week and probably will end up seeing where this is going to take me. im very hesitant about this because im a man thats afraid of failure, and going from a very small operation to something of this magnatude kind of scares me. its going to be alot of work and im sure i will have alot of questions along the way..
went into the sugar house last weekend for the first time in about 5-6 years and everything is in good conditiond and it was like it always was. going to have to do a test boil some time to make sure everything is ok and then come the work in the sugarbush, oh my god where do i start, wind blown trees, brush taller then i am. broken lines , and a bull dozer thats on its last leg.
sounds like it will be a little by little fixer upper job during the summer months. but at least it will keep myself busy and before you know it we will be sugaring again.. thanks again for all the info. this site is awesome

maple rookie

[3rdgen.maple]

Thomson Tree Farm, It is comments like "Your Grandfather would be proud of what you are doing in the woods" that makes the decisions worthwhile. When I bought a new evaporator last season I suprised my dad and gave it to him as a christmas present. Well it was for both of us as an upgrade and it was my way of keeping him involved. When we fired it up for the first boil he looked at me teary eyed and said " I wish your grandfather was here to see this". You gotta love the joys in life when you get responses like that from your family for carrying on a tradition.
Maple Rookie, enjoy it, take things as they come. Walk the lines make the changes in the bush, test boil and fix what needs to get you functional for the first year. Then upgrade from there. You will be succesful if you have the drive and determination. I think if you jump in with big changes not knowing all the in's and out's first you might have wanted to do things differently after the fact. Good luck

[hardermaple]

Everybody is afraid of failure. But look at it like this. It's better to try and fail, than not try at all.

[KenWP]

That and loved and lost then to not have loved at all. Why do you think I am 50 some years old and just moved from one province to another and am just learning the anceint art of maple syrup. Took me that long to figure out time was running out and I better get a move on.

[PARKER MAPLE]

going to the sugarhouse tommorow too check things out, wish me luck..
i think with i little tlc i can be back in opperation by next spring..wish me luck
probably going to have a ton of questions when i back, i never run this big of an opperation before..

[maplecrest]

as you walk around the sugar house, think about what you think you can handle. what does the evap look like. are the pans in the ashes or raised up on boards. what does the smoke stack look like rotten with holes in it. if so you would need to think about replacing that. are the doors on the arch broken. does the roof leak. now do the louver doors open and close to let steam out?what is the road to the sugar house like? wood storage how much how far from arch. what is the shape of the floor of the sugar house. my old one was a mud pit when i was boiling. the woods are the main lines up? lot of trees down what are the size of the mains. are the lats hooked with old blue connectors to main line? what color are the lats green old us maple? or light blue leader 30p. the leader 30p will work for a while but the us maple is or will get brittle and break. storage tanks are they rusty? stainless steel? sap run to the sugar house? or do you have to truck it?

[Haynes Forest Products]

Remember MapleRookie the operation is only as big as the amount of holes you drill. Break it down into 2 areas. 1) The sugar bush everything that it takes to get sap into your sugarhouse storage tanks. 2) storage tanks to barrels. If you have to much sap and no way to prosess it sell the sap and invest in the sugar shack. Evaperator finish pan and filter press are working fine but no sap buy it and work the woods next year.

[johnallin]

MapleRookie, I used to coach kids in little league, one of my favorites still is -

"You can't steal second, with your foot still on first".

Put your chin down and go for it, or you will always wonder what could have been.

[PerryW]

Don't forget to take pictures and post them here.