Changing main line

[Spike]

This was my first year with this bush. I have 1600 taps, and made 475gal. syrup. The main lines were set up for gravity but I added vac. Thanks to Royal Maple. Someone else set bush up years ago. I only had time to do some maintainence, and add a few more taps. Can someone tell me how I can get more production out of this set up?

[brookledge]

You need to give us more info on what you got. Matt should be able to tell you what you need to do.
There are many factors like the correct sizing of your mainlines, slope of the mains, length of the laterals, number of taps on a lateral, age of the drops and tubing, etc.
The biggest thing I try to tell someone to do is test your existing set up during peak flows(if possible) to see what you are getting for vacuum transfer. If you do this and then determine where the problem areas are then you can replace and upgrade accordinly.
To do a test all you need is a vac. gauge reduced to a piece of tubing that will fit snuggly over a spout. Begin pulling taps and putting the gauge on over the spout. Wait a few seconds until the vac stabilizes again and note the amount. Continue working your way out to the extremities etc.
This way you are only improving the areas that need it you may find that the main is too small from the get go but at the same time there is no need to be replacing mainline that is already doing a good job.
As for the laterals 5 to 10 taps and keep them under 100 feet. Keep steady slopes.
Keith

[Spike]

Kieth, The bush is divided into 2 main lines. 1-size 1.25- 900 taps. The other 3/4 line has 750 taps. Both have several 3/4 side lines. half of the tubing is 6years old, other half new. As far as slope. If you fall you roll. I was able to run 18 in. of vac. after fixing all the leaks. Some of the lats are 100-400 ft. long. And some have upwards of 25 taps on them. The problem area is with the 3/4 line. Looking at the line coming down the hill it would be swaying back in forth and making a loud swooshing noise as it went by to the releaser. In the releaser it would gush for a few seconds then back of . It would repeat this on heavy sap runs. I plan on adding more taps to both lines, should I run wet dry? Not sure how that works with set up I have. The old tubing is 6 years old but used 2 years. its very stretchy. I'm going to add 1000 more taps, but not with present set up. I need help

[Haynes Forest Products]

I had he same releaser action and was wondering if that is just the normal way things work. I had the best year ever and I had lines jumping and spitting and at times I wonderd if the mainlines were going to tear themselvs apart. I think you should start buy getting everything running as smoth as possible and then start changing grades and adding feeder mainlines out to the over worked laterals I think there is alot of talk about bags in mainlines and I would like to see a 1500ft mainline that doesnt have any bags in it. I dont care if its being pulled on with a D 9 Cat and its on a 10% grade it will have a bag in it. Having sap constantly spraying into the releaser means there is alot of air/gas entering the system. My understanding is if you get large amounts of sap followed by air then sap and so on your moving the sap in the mainlines. I say tune it up and then fine tune it.

[PATheron]

If its spraying into the releaser its getting air from leaks. If its splurging, nothing and then a long column comes in and you get a ton at a time its sags in the mainline. If you have a dry line over that line its no big problem becouse your still getting vac to the bush. If its the only line and its splurging its reducing your yield. Theron

[KenWP]

You guys allways talk vacuum. What would happen if at the top of the Lines you pumped air into the line instead. It would still suck sap out of the trees would it not. You would not need releasers and would not worry about getting sap into the pump either.

[Haynes Forest Products]

That would pressurize the trees and stop the flow. The key word is pressure differential. Sap moves out of the tree because you relieved the pressure and the sap is pushed out of the tree by the gas inside the tree pushing the sap out. If you equalize the pressure you will stop the flow.

[Haynes Forest Products]

PATheron I have a nice tight woods and have 26HGs 400 feet at the back of the woods with 200 taps and yes I have bags and the sap comes in slurping and spraying and nice clear flow all at differant ways. At the height of this season my releaser was dumping every 49 seconds with about 600 taps. I dont know what I could do to improve the system within reason.

Just a little observation If you have a 1" mainline and it dips 1" you have a bag. Now my question is if the end of the mainline is higher than the discharge line into the releaser and all your taps are higher than the mainline I KNOW I KNOW IN A PERFECT WORLD.

[PATheron]

Haynes- I dont have any main on my property that doesnt sag somewhere. I try to keep it real good but its pretty tough. Thats why I do a wet dry on my main trunk line then If theres sags in the wet line no real harm. Then all the main lines off that I run right up and down the slope just like your not supposed to do, then if theres a sag its no big deal. Seems to work for me. Theron

[220 maple]

KenWP.
The reason vacuum makes a difference is because we trick the tree to believe that every day is a low pressure day. For example. Last nite it was 20 degrees then today the temp. jumped to 50 degrees, you will get a super run if the barometric pressure is low, If the barometric pressure is high you will get sap but not as much as if it was low. So by adding vacuum we are lowering the barometric pressure at the taphole. We get more sap on high pressure days, Those who say that you can't beat mother nature don't understand how vacuuming works in a tubing system..... Who said it's not nice to fool Mother Nature.

Mark 220 Maple

[KenWP]

Okay so much for that idea. I have just had a few trees on gravity and I find the sap hangs up in the tubes all the time and freezes . I need to get ahold of some of these one way values everybody's excited about.