DEFOAMER

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Which defoamer do you prefer?? I was thinking about getting some of the kosher powder defoamer as I should be able to keep it a few years but have never used it and was wanting some opinions??

[mapleman3]

I was thinking the same thing, thinking it may last longer in the powder or granular form than in the liquid bottle, then just a pinch should do the trick, ... may even try a defoamer cup this year, my Dad is the "foam" guy when he's over boiling on Wed's with me, he'll keep an eye on it and take care of it for me while I'm drawing off or firing :D

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Fresh butter-About a table spoon last me the whole season on 600+ gals. of syrup.I only use it in the front pan mainly and line up 5-6 scoops and skimmers in my draw-off side to keep it from foaming over the pans sides.Never know pound it right to it as it will add to the flavor/// Hear that the Commercial stuff can go Rancid?

[mapleman3]

true on the rancid, I've heard that too, keep it fresh and cool, new each year, thats why I think the granular would last so much longer!

[gmcooper]

I used real butter for 14 years with no problem other than my neighbor who helps when I boil some nights likes to go a little overboard with the butter. A drop or two works but a tsp must be better. We tried the Kosher granular this year. A few (2-3) granules worked great but helper thought why not use tsp full just in case. We will be going back to butter this spring. At least it will only add a buttery flavor if my help gets a bigger spoon.

[sugaring42long]

I have used the granular defoamer for several years and really like it. Brandon you are right in thinking it will keep longer, just keep it dry and cool and it won't get ripe. The best part about it is being able to flick a couple of grains right where you need it or if you have rubber gloves on (seems like I always do) you can wet the tip of a knife and pick up a few grains out of a separate container and drag it through the foam. One tub lasts me for 1000 to 1500 gallons of syrup!

[WF MASON]

I have a customer who lives in central Maine , he told me, just by chance he tryed using olive oil , and it worked fine , awhile later he was contacted by a , if I remember right a 'vegetarian' bakery , they use no animal products and asked what he used for deformer , when he said 'olive oil ' , the guy said great , would you supply us with 50 gallons of syrup a year ?
Just something to think about , I've never used olive oil , so I can't say how it works.

[SUGARSMITH]

I have used the granules for several years and like it. I put it in a salt shaker with slightly enlarged holes

[backyardsugarer]

I use very small amount of butter and it seems to work great. Not very expensive either.

Chris

[Iver]

We have been using olive oil in a spray can for 3 years. It works great, is vegetarian and doesn't impart any flavor to the syrup. A tiny spritz calms the boil.

[maplwrks]

I've used both, powder and liquid. I prefer the liquid because I can put into a gravity oiler (used on open gear machines), adjust it to approx. 1 drop every 2 minutes into the rear float box- Keeps the entire rig foam free! You risk flavoring your syrup by putting it into the syrup pan, I don't recommend.

[Sweber]

Of course you could suspend a small piece of pork about 1" below the rim of the pan. When the foam hits it, it's done. When it gets nasty, just throw it out and get another.
Screw vegatarians. :wink:

[Iver]

You can have the carnivore pork dripping maple syrup consuming customers. It may not be kosher...

[michaelh05478]

I have been using the small liquid bottle, but im thinking of switching over to granular......Sick of having my bottle freeze and than having to unthaw it..............I like the salt shaker idea... :D

[Sweber]

I don't know how to delete messages here. Ooops.

[Sweber]

How can you just drip once a day??
At 2004 open house at Bascoms here in NH they suggested "scheduling" a defoamer drip every couple of minutes, how many I'm not sure. It may depend on quality of sap, sugar sand,the pan, etc..

Do people really use olive oil?
Kind of a wierd taste for syrup isn't it?
Liquid defoamer works best for me. Works like a charm every time. It is still oil but very little taste, if any. Olive oil :?: Really?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Sweber,

Seems like the most consistent answer I have gotten from different people is that they usually put 1 drop in the regulator box every time they fire.

Don't know, much makes more sense than about anything else! :?

[Iver]

Olive oil spray doesn't seem to impart any flavor, but we don't use much. The can easily lasts the season and is used for spraying on the griddle for making pancakes on Maine Maple Sunday as well.

[SBClorite]

New to the site, so I've been reading a lot of threads...
We've been using Pam spray as defoamer for two years now. We started with butter, but the steam was too hot without wearing gloves.
With the Pam, we just spray into the foam and it kills the bubbles in the whole pan an once.
Just a touch will do though.

[Bucket Head]

The practice of using pork fat as a defoamer should be discontinued by all who are still doing it!

With all the "tasteless" defoamer's out there, there is no good reason to keep using it.

Back in Dec. I was selling syrup at a local craft show when two women walked by with disgusted look's on their faces. They picked up some syrup, looked at it, made more strange faces, quickly put it down and walked away. I thought "whatever", and forgot about it. A couple of minute's later they came back and started to tell me that they both bought some syrup (not mine) and they did'nt like it. They said it taste's "funny". I asked what they meant by "funny"? They both blurted out "it taste's like...BACON!".

So I explained why and urged them to try another producer's product before they badmouthed all real maple syrup. They both bought a pint of my syrup, which does not taste like bacon.

I like to think that I "saved" two maple consumer's that day.

Using pork fat only harm's this industry/hobby.

Steve

[peacemaker]

so pam has a olive oild spray is that what u mean or are u using a dropper for u oil ?

[DS Maple]

We use heavy cream as a defoamer and I must admit that it works really well. Just a small drop makes the foam go down in a matter of a couple seconds. There is no evidence of it in the flavor of the syrup, and it is easier to tell customers that cream is being used as a defoamer instead of something like "Atmos 300."

[maplecrest]

cream is great but allergies is a problem, be up front with customers for food born allergies is a new thing packers have sent out warnings no dairy based products, no nut based products so for non organic producers atmos 300 is the answer. for organic is is still in air. at maple weekend last spring in st albans alot of samples were thrown out too much defoamer. was canola oil need alot to knock foam down and could taste in syrup. you need to be carefull if selling bulk.

[mfchef54]

as a chef who serves alot of vegans(no animal by products) i hope the company that supplies me with REAL Maple Syrup is getting their supply from someone who uses a de foaming agent and not pork or dairy products. the old saying that what you don't know won't hurt is being prove wrong ever day. considering what it cost in the over all picture i would think evryone would switch over. I hope I don't offend anyone. Imho. I am using the liquid for the first time this year and it works like a charm and seems to last along time.

[royalmaple]

I've use a bunch of stuff in the past. The dry defoamer works pretty well. You don't even need a pinch, litterally a few grains is all it takes. Of course depending on the size of the evaporator.

I used canola last year as a test and I left a wooden shish-ka-bob stick in the jar and took it out when I needed to defoam and use litterally a drop or two at max and worked very well.

I think many people get defoamer happy and use it incorrectly. There's a tolerable amount of foam to have in your pans. It's when it's about ready to run down the sides of the arch you might want to look for something to kill the foam.

[the old guy]

I Just Use A Piece Of Stainless Wire About 15 To 18 Inches Long And Poke It Into A Tub Of "real Butter"--not Margarine, Then Just Stick It Over The Main Evaporator Pan And Only A Small Drop Hits The Foam. Works Every Time With No Artificial Taste.

The Old Guy

[RileySugarbush]

I use a little dab of butter, flicked into the flue pan. I check the flue pan every couple of firings, but don't need to defoam each time.

[SeanD]

I've scooped off the large clumps of foam with a seive and tossed it. I was originally thinking the less I added to the sap, the better. Is it better to use the defoamers? Am I losing sugar when I toss the foam?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

If it is just foaming, you are not losing enough sugar to make any difference if any. A lot of the trader members have hoods with preheaters, so it is basically impossible to skim the flue pan then, thus the use for defoamer. A lot of the use is due to the extreme heat causing too many air bubbles and the bubbles to go clear to the top of the flue pan, no necessarily foam or scum.

[Brent]

I was recently informed that a major reason for defoaming is to increase evaporation rates. I was explained that a huge percentage of the water will leave the surface as opposed to the boiling vapor bubbles and that if you leave the foam on top is insulates the surface making almost all of the water loss come from the boiling and bubbling.

Recalling what I did last year, and nights when I had more energy for skimming and defoaming, I did pour the sap through faster. But that's only my impression and I'm getting to close to senile to trust that.

for what it's worth.

[tapper]

When I was running a 2x6 I only defoamed when needed which wasnt very often with no problems at all. The new evaproartor boils so hard and so fast that even a small amount of foam in the syrup pan creates tense moments at drawoff. And that is after adding defoamer on each firing into the floatbox. Every boil is a new experience.

[220 maple]

We use deformer as little as possible, we have used Pam at times, basically the only reason to use defoamer is to increase the boiling rate. That being said, I got to tell you guys about a camp I visited that don't use any defoamer, I asked why? I hope I explain this properly so you can visualize what they did. One of the camp owners stool on the opposite side of the evaporator from me. At full boil I could not see him for the steam that was coming off the pan, I could only hear him. He puts a couple drops of defoamer in and like magic I could see him. Then came the classic line from him, if there is no steam the water is not leaving. He had me! I couldn't respond to his demostration. I came home and told my high school senior what I witnessed. I knew what I saw was not right but I didn't have a responce. My son said dad we learned that in Physics class its the steam that you can't see that is the hottest. The guys at that camp told me they have a cousin with a new 3 by 10 that had to mount 10 inch boards on the side to keep the foam in. I need a video of that one. One of the local equipment suppiers offered to put a flow meter on the input line to prove to them that you need to keep the foam down. Their answer to him was their grandfather made syrup that way and he made alot of it therefore they couldn't be wrong.

[Father & Son]

Old habits die hard!

Jim

[jdj]

I have a 3x10 (wood fired) with a steamaway and put two drops of atmos defoamer in the steamaway each time I fire it. This seems to prevent foam problems. I have noticed if I forget to add defoamer that the floats don't work properly. Never thought about defoamer effecting evaporation rates before. My main concern is to keep the floats working properly so I don't burn my pans.

[nhmaple48]

"Habits are first cobwebs,then they become cables." Freddy J. Call

[maplecrest]

having a steamaway defoaming is very important, for if you do not, test the water comming out of the unit for sugar. after switching to r/o i needed to add more defoamer for the water in my wash tank[water from steamaway] was 2% sugar. the foam was working so high that is was working into the vapor recovery trays. i added a dripper["new"oil dripper for machine use] on the steamaway that takes care of the defoaming of the hole rig. might have to defoam front pan on first draw of the day. need to refill every other boil.solved my problem

[SBClorite]

The Pam, or generic cooking spray, is usually made of canola oil. It makes keeping foam down in the flue pan easy because it spreads over a large area very quickly.
I'm sure to buy the unflavored kind (no butter additives, or garlic).
I imagine it would work well with a preheater under the hood, since it can spray past the pipes, although we don't have a preheater to try it on.
One can will last for decades and it's really cheap.
I find we spray about every ten minutes, or every other time we add wood. (3x12 evaporator with blower). But, after our first full blown foam up, we check it every fire out of habit.

You see more steam when there is cool air flowing around your evaporator. The water droplets condense in the cooler air and form a rising cloud. So, hotter less visable steam is actually better, so long as you see the sap bubbling like crazy.

Steve - Paid to sugar at work! ... most of the time.

[Bucket Head]

Here is some defoamer info that everyone should be aware of. This is from Glenn Goodrich. I attended a boiling technology workshop at the Verona Maple Conference and I have since contacted him to talk about it further.

I will be doing what he recomended this season. I use the Atmos 300. This will help out the smaller evaporator's more than the larger one's, but will work for all.

Glenn asked if anyone has what appear's to be an "oil slick" on the syrup whan they open a bottle and pull the seal off. I have on occasion. He said it was becuase too much defoamer was used. Ninety nine percent of us are using too much defoamer. Foam is a boil inhibiter and it act's like insulation on top of the sap. However, you only need a trace amount of defoamer to break the surface tension of the foam.

He recomended diluting the defoamer. It will still work and you won't be "loading up" the syrup with it like you were putting it in "straight". He recomend's a 10:1 ratio. For example, 10 ounces of water to 1 ounce of defoamer.

Just something everyone should think about when trying to cure the foaming problem.

Steve