Sugar Maple Identification

[Dave Lister]

Is this a sugar maple leaf?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timandmartha/3510771157/sizes/l/
All I have in my woods are red maples, so I have nothing to compare it to. My folks and I are slowly thinning the forest to promote more maple growth and we were thinking of purchasing lots of seedlings to plant for the next generation.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/timandmartha/3510766915/sizes/l/
I just noticed all these maple seedlings in the back yard of my apartment 45 minutes away from where our sugarbush is and am pretty sure they are sugars. There are a bunch of big old trees around the house I rent.
If they are, I already got permission from the landlords to "weed" the woods.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/timandmartha/3510773601/sizes/l/

As you can see, they are everywhere!

I think I have a new spring/summer/fall project. Transplant as many maples as I can get my hands on!


Thanks for the help


Tim

[mountainvan]

yes that is a sugar maple leaf.

[Flat47]

x2: that's a sugar.
Check out "Forest Trees of Maine" by the Maine Forest Service (available online). Here's the link to the sugar maple entry: http://www.maine.gov/doc/mfs/pubs/ftm/hw/ftm_hw_sugar_maple.pdf

It's amazing how the sugars will seed-in like that in some places. You're lucky! Seems like only poplar seeds in like that around here.

[Dave Lister]

It looks like that at my place, but only with beech trees. We have been spending a few hours each weekend pretty much mowing everything non-maple inbetween all the bigger trees to clear the woods out a bit. I am planning on taking as many of these little maples as I can and place them in the spaces between the bigger trees.
wonder how well they will grow with 1/2 to 3/4 cannopy?
Might take pics once the leaves fill in to get a better opinion.
I figure the beech trees are getting enough to grow pretty fast so the maples should as well, right?

[KenWP]

I searched all over last year to find a maple tree with seeds on it besides the boxelders and the silvers. Do they show seed early in the year maybe. I never arrived in Quebec untill the end of June.

[3rdgen.maple]

Tim if they are maples tap them. You can tap those reds and make dam fine syrup with them.

[Dave Lister]

Oh dont worry. I have a tap on every red within a decent distance of the mainline. 91 taps out for last year, all reds.
As for when the seedlings come about, not too sure for Quebec. Right now, every yard in my neighborhood with a maple tree in it has more seedlings than grass. Its quite funny to be honest. Quite sad too, because I know the next sunny weekend day, they will all get mowed down and treated like weeds.

[PerryW]

The red maple leaves look like they are cut with pinking shears, whereas the sugar maples have smooth edges.

[gdtowne]

I hope I am not too late, and I apalogize for not being able to help you earlier, but I am afraid those are NOT sugar maples. They are actually Norway maples; a tree you do not want growing in your sugar bush. Sugar maple does not usually germinate that prolifically, as well, all the larger trees in your images appear to be Norways as well. For a definite check, in the spring, if you pull off a leaf, the sap will run white and cloudy, and cannot be used to make syrup. The leaves are slightly wider than sugar maple, and the petiole of the Norway maple usually has a red tinge, as you can see in your images. Once again, this tree is very invasive, and is not something you want to introduce to your sugarbush.

Gerry

[3rdgen.maple]

Looking at those photos I gotta say that cluster of trees right up front sure does look like a norway by the looks of the bark. leaf is a little deceiving to me though I thought the bottom lobes closest to the stem was straight across from tip to tip not the angle that is in the picture. But darn if that bark don't look norway. As far as tapping them Ask some of the guys on here cause I know that I have read some post of people who tap them.

[Flat47]

I thought the cluster of trees in front/right of pic 3 were ash.
I still think you're looking at sugar maples seeding in there. I work in the woods and have seen many many areas with maple seedlings just like the picture. Norways have larger leaves (but so do competing sugar seedlings).

From "Forest Trees of Maine":
NORWAY MAPLE
Acer platanoides L.
Norway Maple is an exotic from Europe and Asia and is becoming
a favorite for shade tree plantings. It resembles somewhat the
sugar maple, but the leaves are larger, darker green, and the petiole
gives off a milky juice when broken, which is not common to any of
our native maples. The terminal buds are usually of a larger
diameter than the end of the twigs. There are many varieties of
Norway maple.

[3rdgen.maple]

Flat I m on the wagon on this one the leaves do have the apperance of a sugar to me but they are a little to on the rounded side and from pictures I have seen on the net the bark of a norway looks like ash bark. I am just not sure. Like gdtowne suggest pull a leaf in the spring and see if the sap is milky. I am curious if these are a sugars or not.

[gdtowne]

I too felt that the bark looks like ash on a second look, and there are even some leaves that seem to be coming off the trunks, but I can't imagine they actually are. I feel they are not ash due to two observations:

1. Ash do not often grow as multiple stems like that, without the smallest dieing and rotting away long before they reach that size. The trees are just far too shade-intolerant to compete with each other like that.

2. The branch scars, or nubs that you can see protruding from the trunks is indicative of Norway maple, and is nearly never seen in ash. I think of the ash in my own woods, and they are generally very smooth-trunked and straight.

Not saying that I am right, but would hate to see any Norway maples being planted in someone's perspective sugarbush.

Gerry

[michelle32]

Tap one now. Put a bucket and see if you get sap.If you do, boil it down in the kitchen and taste.
Keith

[BarrelBoiler]

i googled maple leaf and the Mass maple assosiation(sp) has a site on tree id the drawing on there of a norway maple leaf did noot match the pic in the post. At first glance the leaf looked like a sugar maple then i looked a the next picture and those saplings sure looked like rock or sugar maple trees. I have seen them grow like that on the edge of open areas with lots of sun and a seed source either close by or up wind. the seeeds drop oout of the wind and are potected by the tall grass and blown leaves caught at the edge. Saw it alot around some cemetaries i mowed a few years back.
Ash will grow multiple stems especially from stump shoots and as they age one or more will die off

[Arctic Art]

Tim, Your first picture is a Norway maple. Your second picture has mostly young sugar maples, but I believe that the shiny maple leaves are Norway maple. Just be careful what you transplant. You can google Norway maple leaves and you'll get a pretty good picture of the leaves.

[Dave Lister]

Thanks for the responses. Would have replied sooner but haven't been paying attention. I will give a good hard look to the trees I transplanted come spring time. They were abut 6 feet tall max. I only got about a dozen transplanted, and they are all within throwing distance of each other so it won't be too much of a pain to remove them if they are indeed Norway's.
I will take pics when the leaves sprout and share just to double check.

One thing I noticed about the leaves on the trees I transplanted was that the rounded part where the lobes meet isn't flat. Its like theres two much material, so it sticks out a bit. Some of the sugars I have seen don't do that and remain perficly flat. Any opinions on that?

Oh, and as for the trees in the background, they are indeed ash trees. I realized that this summer. when I first discovered the grove, I thought they were maples and had plans on tapping them all. I have now learned to identify at least ash trees from their bark. Getting better on the maples and oaks every time I go out side. Sort of a fun game to play. Identify the trees by bark and then look up and squint.

[BarrelBoiler]

leaves on different parts of the tree can be a "variation on the theme"
i have an red oak that has some leaves taht are typical red oak on the outside of the tree but where they are protected on the inside the leaves are more rounded than pointy
a thought on transplanting-- the malpes i have seen like those looked like it would be real hard to take just one to move you might be better off taking a group and over time culling out to the best one :rolleyes: just a thought

[Just Enough]

Actually, sugar maple and norway maple are pretty hard to tell apart just from leaf shape. But, the easiest way to tell is by breaking a stem or tearing a leaf and looking at the sap. Norway sap is milky white, like latex paint. Sugar and black maple are both clear like water.

Mac

[adk1]

I can definatly tell between my sugars and reds right now. the reds buds are already rounding and even looking 30' in the air I can tell that they are round and not pointed.
Going by the bark alone that is really difficult at times.