hurricane force 5

[Dave Y]

Those of you that went to Lapierre's open house last weekend, how many of you saw the new force 5 arch? And what did you think of it. Will it boil like I have heard it will? And what about the wood consumption? I would be interested in hearing your thoughts and opinions.

[sterling gold]

Saw it in action...as I expand, the ultimate goal is the Force 5. For the price, you just can't beat it in efficiency and low emissions. The whole day, the Force 5 blasted through less than a cord of wood, yet evaporated 3000+ gallons of water, and never a spark or smoke out of the stack. The representative claimed 85% efficiency, up there with the best oil arches.

When I asked how much it cost, he said either 16k or 60k, and I'm assuming the latter. Next year, the Force 5 is coming with an O2 sensor to automatically control the forced air. Dollar for dollar, and with the likelihood of oil topping $10/gallon in the next 20 years, the Force 5 is the only way to go.

One drawback: it's only designed to boil RO sap, but I guess if you're tossing down 60k for an arch, you are already ROing.

[Dave Y]

How could it be designed to boil ro sap only? Sap is sap, weither it is 2% or 20%.

[sterling gold]

I'm no scientist, so I can only regurgitate what the representative said. Thought I'd give you some pictures to whet your appetite.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/deathvalleydan/IMG_4288.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/deathvalleydan/IMG_4291.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e82/deathvalleydan/IMG_4293.jpg

[Mark]

Looks like any other wood fired thunderbolt, sounds like a lot of hype.

[Dave Y]

Sterling,
Thanks for posting the pics. I had a long phone converstaion with on of their reps yesterday. I am considering one for my self. If I can come up with the finacining. The evaporation numbers he threw out where insane. If it would do half of what I was told i would be impressed. Mark, My Dad always told me "looks can be deciving".

[sterling gold]

Well if you get the Force 5, I'd love to hop across the pond and give you a hand!

[Dave Y]

Sterling,
If I do get one, I would even let you fire it, if you came that far!

[WF MASON]

Very nice photos, its good to see one. It looks like the door closes 'into' the opening in the front , like a vault , for a good tight seal. No blanket or refractory on the inside of the door it self though. That must be piped with air, but I would think unless thats 1/2" plate it would still burn out if it cooks like you say. And what would that precision lazer cutout on the front above the door opening be for? Does it suck air into the firebox from there somehow?

Jerry do I smell 'Force 5.5' ?

OK, this is my edit, the other photo just downloaded showing the inside of the door, what a easy easy way to get air plumbed into the door, I've got to give them that.

[Uncle Tucker]

Bill the hole in the door is a window to see the fire; how ells would, you see $60,000 burn. The cool thing about the Force 5 is it only needs to be fired every 60-90 minutes. And they clamed it’s a hotter fire than oil. The rep said it burns wet or unseasoned wood just as good as dry wood.

I asked how it compares to the Intense-o-fire or the Inferno the rep started telling me how it blows most the air above the fire, the air mixes to burn more completely and so on. I don’t see how it is all that different from Jerry’s stoves.

I don’t understand how it only boils ROed sap. They weren’t boiling ROed water to test it at there open house. And it still worked fine. I need more info on this.

Don’t get me wrong, I like this stove but,,, it looks a lot like the DG from a couple of years ago and seams to work on the same principles as the other manufactures.
Maybe I am just jealous!

[802maple]

Bill, after much investigation that day, it has a design similar to what I had floating in my head. The only thing I didn't get a look at was the blower. That blower has got to be some animal as it was developing more pressure then I had ever seen in a forced draft evaporator. I saw that it had smaller injectors and were placed to develope a rotation in the fire, which isn't all that hard to figure out.
I need to come over and talk with you about the design I discussed earlier with you and maybe try to create something similar for it. This is certainly not a typical hurricane or intens-o-fire arch as mentioned above due to the fact that you only need to fire once a hour as I witnessed.

I think there will be a supercharged force 6.789 in the future though.

[sterling gold]

I asked the rep about electricity draw, and I believe he said 16 amps at 240 volts, which translates with fuzzy math into around 4kw...seems a bit low considering the blower motors on the beast are 3hp.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Jerry,
If you need a place to test the prototype, I'm open:)

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

That didn't look like a super size evaporator, I would think the price would be $ 16,000, not $ 60,000 as there was some debate over the price.

[Dave Y]

I had a long conversation with their rep on Monday. The rig in the pics is a3.5 x14. It is around 25k depending on what you want , hoods etc. I am having a quote sent to me for a 4x14. I feel if the rig will do half of what it is rated at it is worth it. besides it is no more expensive than a Leader Max pan set up with an air tight arch, and the boiling rates are comparable.

[tuckermtn]

so is that $25K for a whole set-up (i.e. arch, pans, hoods, stack) - if thats the case it doesnt seem too crazy...wait, did I just say that?

[tapper]

Going by what I paid for a 2.5 x 8 leader 3 years ago that price seems to be comparable.
If I heard correctly the bottom fell out of the price of stainless a while back and I am wondering if it will be a while yet before that shows up in the price of finished product?

[Dave Y]

tuckermtn,
I think that is with out hoods. How ever hoods and stack would be another 5k at the most. and when you are spending that much what another 5K. when I get my quotes I will let you guys know. how ever these are early order sale prices.

[DS Maple]

I'm waiting on quote for a 3x12 arch only. Bascom's wasn't too excited about the idea of selling a Lapierre though, so who knows how long it will take them to get a number.

[Dave Y]

DS Maple
Call Lapeirre and ask for Matt Williams or Tom. They will be happy to send you a quote.

[Russell Lampron]

Scott go to www.mapleguys.com and contact them. Chris sells Lapierre equipment and will treat you better than Bascom's.

[DS Maple]

I do plan on getting in touch with others, but since I was at Bascom's last Saturday I figured I'd ask them. If we wind up ordering anything though it probably won't be until next fall at the earliest so right now I'm just kind of doing some light research for fun.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I totally agree with Russ, if you want good customer service, the www.mapleguys.com can't be beat. For you new members, they established this sight and still own the domain name and were administrators of this sight for years. I order from them at least once every year and they usually ship me my tubing and fittings aprox 800 miles.

They even shipped me a Lappierre filter press 3 years ago and it arrived in perfect condition. They are offering around 10% to 12% discount on about everything thru June 1st.

[DS Maple]

Finally got the quote from Bascom's. Right around $14,000 for a 3x12 arch only. Not bad, but double what the entire evaporator cost in '97.

[maplekid]

im still at a misunderstanding on the ro'd sap only. mabey you need ro'd sap to get the evap rate there throwing out.

[Brent]

my guess is that the RO spec is because the pan dimenisons and heat distribution are tuned for higher concentration going in, and keeping a balance with how it finishes.

[maplekid]

i found a video of the force 5 evap running http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrhomMbyixs

[PATheron]

Has anybody seen exact numbers of the percentage of wood used compared to a conventional wood fired evap? Theron

[ennismaple]

I'll get you an answer by the third week of April!

I've asked for wood consumption rates but they haven't given me any numbers yet and I don't expect they will. To be extra safe I've got as much wood ready as I did last year. Hopefully I only need half of it.

[PATheron]

Ennis- What did they tell you the evaperation rate would be? Does it have a three horse motor like these guys were saying? Theron

[ennismaple]

About 245 USGPH. I know the 2 blowers draw 20 amps but I can't recall the size of the motor. I'll have more details after next weekend - it shows up on Wednesday! Happy, happy, joy, joy!!!!

[PATheron]

Ennis- What are the dimentions again? 3.5 by 12? Must be at least a three horse to draw that Id say. I was talking to a guy at work thats interested in gasification and hes saying that it uses a third less wood in general but If you only stoke it once an hour must be greater savings than that in this application. Im starting to think about it but biggest rig I think I can fit in the shed is a 4 by 12. Theron

[Brent]

assuming 20 amps of 230/1/60 that would be full load for a 3 Hp motor.
Maybe two 1 1/2 is it has blowers with an "s"

[Haynes Forest Products]

The way I see it is there is only so many BTUs in a cord of wood. Depending on the type and dryness of your wood you can only boil a certain amount of sap/water with the amout of BTUs in a cord of wood. You can either load it in all at once or in small amounts. Efficiency is the main factor when it comes to evaporation rates and when they say the BTUs of a fuel they calculate the BTUs on total burn of the fuel. Any arch that completly burns the fuel/gases will be more efficient and will increase your evaporation rate but they cant get any more BTUs out of a cord of wood than is in the cord of wood. Remember that wet/unseasoned wood will use up more BTUs just to burn and not heat.