Filtering Sap

[Dan W]

What do youy guys think of using a cartridge type pool filter as a feed tank pump and filter? They can be pretty cheap on ebay. My only concern woud be the head they could handle. I would think they could handle 8 or 10 feet and the replacement filters are pretty reasonable. If they can filter a few thousand gallon pool they should be able to handle a couple thousand gallons of sap. What say you?

[Homestead Maple]

I use a Hayward C500 model cartridge filter to filter my sap before it goes into the storage tank and a C250 before sap goes into the RO. In both instances the filter is before the pump, so I'm pulling the sap through the filter, not pumping it through.

[Brent]

I ran a cartridge filter before my RO system and had a couple of 275 gallon totes to feed. I recycled sap through the RO and found they were getting fouled and causing a pressure drop of a few pounds in less than 48 hours. If they were filtering inert stuff, I feel they would have been fine. But the sap microbes multilply. And the flow only enhances their food supply. A new filter every other day adds up in a month or 6 weeks.

I am thinking to use a bag filter next year that can be washed and re-used, but I'm not sure I'll find a bag filter that will go down to 1 micron that is re-useable. If you don't care about catching the microbes ( that are about 1 micron ) Then a coarser cloth bag is very economical.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Those pool filter/pumps will just agravate you they have no head pressure and they are a feeble pump. Brents right about the cost of filters and how often you chould change them. My spun cotton house filter set up works great until about the 3rd day when all the microbes turn it black and it clogs. I will hear the pump running and find out that nothing is going onto the tank...not good.

[Dan W]

Thanks for the replies. I will go with something more conventional.

[H. Walker]

Check out the Lapierre sap presure filter with the washable filter. I installed mine last year and love it. I run it with the 5 micron pre filter and a 1 micron filter. I've run over 1500 gallons of sap through it and not plug it. To clean it I just rince and soak in pre heater water then hang to dry. I'm sure that the filter was the reason that I was still making Light Syrup when my neighbors were making Medium.

[cropseyvillemark]

What is the advantage of pulling the sap through the filter vs. pumping through?

[Homestead Maple]

The reason I do, is to keep the junk (bits of wood, twigs, moths, and other stuff that seems to get blown by the wind into my woods, sap collection tank, etc.) out of my pumps impellor. I use an electric 1-1/2hp Goulds pump to transfer the sap from my hauler to the storage tank and the cartridge filter is in-line before the pump.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Homestead Get the cheap prefilters and tape it over the end of the discharge hose into the bulk tank and you will be amazed at the crud you will have after a days hauling.

[tstew]

milk filters work great for getting the big stuff out (bugs, bark, etc.) they are cheap to buy and u get alot in a box. I hose clamp them to my pump line into the gathering tank. At the end of the day toss it out. They can handle high flow from my pump. When I pump into my holding tanks I use a 5 micron high flow bag filter from MSC. Last I checked they make the high flow bag filters down to 1 micron. I bought 5 and switch out every day. This lets me wash the dirty ones with plenty to spare. Hope this helps.

[Brent]

I can add a bit of input from my day job to this.

We sell EDM machines ( elctrical dischare machines ) to mold makers/tool and die shops.

One factory we represent guarantees the electrolyte filter for 5 years. When I looked at them they were the same as everyone elses ... except they were bigger. The factory guy explained to me that the difference, and its big, is that they use 4 X the surface area on the filter. They discovered that the effectiveness of backwashing was profoundly affected by the velocity and pressure of the particles impacting the filter cartridge. More area, slower impact and then easier backwash.

Some of those machines went past 10 years on the original filters while the cheaper machines with the same cartridges, but smaller, gave no warranty and had to be thrown out and replaced every 6 months.

When it comes to filter size .... go oversize.

[3rdgen.maple]

Why couldn't one go to the home depot go in the garden section and pick up one of the pond filter tanks with an ultraviolet light in it. NOT the bio filter ones. I have a large one that filters my fish pond and was always curious about hooking a new one up in the sugarhouse. They have a bunch of sponge filters in them that are made to be washed and reused for years. Add the bonus of the uv light to kill bacteria. Any thoughts?

[Brent]

The UV light in them simple does not have enough output to be meaningful. The sugars in sap cut it transmission significantly. It would be a waste of money.

You simply can not buy enough watts of UV output to make an impact on the microbes without spending something like $ 750 MINIMUM and then you need to slow the flow rate through the light to get enough exposure time. The guys that make the SAPSAVER lights charge $3500. That's stiff, but there is a reason.

[Maplewalnut]

Brent- you are exactly right. UV radiation for killing microbes is the least effective method of baterial kill compared to say steam or chemical sanitization. Sure UV has a kill radius but penetration is the key. Outside of the effective range it is meaningless. That range is dependent on the strength of the UV source, resonance time and bacterial load. Of course if you use one in line and pump as fast as you can your defeating the purpose. Surface disinfection is all you can expect so keep your fluid stream small and slow to reap the biggest reward

[Brent]

Check out the Lapierre sap presure filter with the washable filter. I installed mine last year and love it. I run it with the 5 micron pre filter and a 1 micron filter. I've run over 1500 gallons of sap through it and not plug it. To clean it I just rince and soak in pre heater water then hang to dry. I'm sure that the filter was the reason that I was still making Light Syrup when my neighbors were making Medium.


I checked out the LaPierre and it gave no spec for filter size. If you run a filter and it does not plug, it ain't filtering. The stuff either goes through the filter or it gets lodged in it an eventually plugs it.

What you want to get out of sap is the microbes that are about 1 micron.
I don't think there is a washable / re-useable filter that will get them. Maybe if you coated it with DE it would get a lot of them, but not without DE.

If anyone knows where to get one, please let me know.

[H. Walker]

Brent, They do make a washable 1 micron filter, I'll try and find a product name and number.

[twobears1224]

i picked up some info on culligan water filters yesterday.they have a 1 micron filter that fits some of there sediment filters.it fits there model number hf-150,hf-160,hf-360,hf-365 filters

delbert

[maple flats]

I use a 5 micron whole house filter (10" big blue) and get good results but I am filtering in the evap feed line after the feed tank. I pump thru a UV light rated at 8 gpm but only pump at 4 gpm to improve effectiveness, from there it goes into the feed tank and then thru the filter and into the evap. I get about 6-8 days before a cartridge needs changing. After i added the UV I got much improved sap storage life but I'm sure I don't get it all. If i have to store over 24 hrs i set up to drain the feed tank into a ground tank thru the UV and wash the feed tank, then pump again thru the UV and refill the feed tank. I only ended up doing that 1 time this season. When I get my RO I should not have to do that again unless I try to tap TOO many for my equipment to keep up with.

[Brent]

I have no science to back up this but my thinking is that if you filter through any kind of a bag filter, you'll get most of the debris and none of the microbes. And I don't think there is much in most sap in the in between sizes. Once you get to a 1 micron filter, you are starting to catch a lot of the microbes, dead or alive. A normal 1 micron fitler is what is called a "nominally rated'" fitler, which means it will trap 65% of the stuff that size. An "absolute rated" 1 micron filter on the other hand will trap + 99% of the 1 micron stuff. The microbes that spoil sap are aobut 1 micron.

When I was using a 1 micron nominal rated filter in front of my mini RO's this season, it would start to foul after 48 hours. During that time there was no
UV so the stuff trapped in the filter was still growing and multiplying. Especially since I was re-circulating with gave the microbes a constant source of flow of increasingly rich food. It was heaven for them.

Dave likely got such good life from his filter because first, a lot of the microbes went through, and secondly, those that got trapped, or a least a lot of them, had been sterilized by the UV.

I think if you switched to a 1 micron absolute filter, you'd have a much shorter life, and be a lot poorer. The 1 micron absolute bag filters that I use for final filtering of syrup, from McMaster-Carr are $ 18. a pop. The 10" cartridge 1 micron units are way up there, from memory about $ 150.
Given that we seem to think late season sap yields darker syrup and killing the microbes with UV helps maintain lighter syrup, then maybe we should be thinking of only using the 1 micron absolute filters, when absolutely needed, ie late in the season when the syrup start to darked.

Just some more half baked theories, but it sounds good, especially in May.

PS I am not going to tap trees tonight despite the fact we're going to have a freeze here.