Earth Day question

[Brent]

I've just done a wash with sodium hydroxide and want to flush it out to do the acid part of the cycle.

so I've got about 12 - 15 gallons of stuff that needs to be neutralized before I dump it .

Do any of you neutralize with acid before you dump ? If so, what acid and how to do it safely.

[Brent]

This question has been on the board for several days now without a response.

I asked the same question last year and did not get an response.

Do I take it from the silence that all you guys just dump you acidic and basic
cleaners ?

And by the way, dilituting and acid does not neutralize it.

Last year I made the mistake of dumping the caustic soda on the lawn and there is still nothing growing there !

If I find an answer, I'll post it.

[KenWP]

Well baking soda will neutralize the acid at least. Try that. In the barns we just flush the caustic soda in to the manure pits.

[Brent]

Thanks Ken I know enough about chemistry to know that I don't know enough. Sometimes when you mix these familiar things you can get unexpected results that could give off gasses and other noxious things that are not necessarily acidic or basic but just plain toxic.

You can do this with plain old swimming pool chemistry.

I'm beginning to think that there are areas around or under sugar shacks that may be reminiscent of mine tailings.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I believe that caustic soda is usually the primary ingredient in drain cleaners and as such is dumped down drains by the 1000's of gallons.

[Brent]

That's true, but Coca Cola used to put cocaine in thier bottles, and tobacco companies used to tell us smoking was ok and radon is a natural substance that leaks into our basements.

The bald patch on my lawn is telling me I screwed up last season. I don't have a connection to a municipal drain when I can dump this &^%$ so I'm hoping to learn what to do with it.

Oh, and the acid that you clean membranes with is "only" citric acid. Orange juice. Just a whole lot stronger.

[KenWP]

It is actually synthetic citric acid. If you google it it doen't really tell how to dispose of it. It drys up into a dust and can be inhaled and all that good stuff.

[Clan Delaney]

My high school education is telling me that whatever you're trying to neutralize, add the opposite in small amounts and continue to test with ph strips until you reach neutral. That being said, I can't speak in the least about what the combining of any two chemicals will create, other than that the combining of pizza and beer creates a great party.

Here's a possibility... there's got to be a forum site out there somewhere, much like we have here, but dedicated to chemistry. Just like we have experts here that can get into mind boggling detail about the most obscure maple questions, so would those sites have people who could tell you exactly how to safely neutralize your solution, and with what.

[maple flats]

It seems to me that any chemical cleaner is required to give directions for disposal. Are you saying this is not given on the label of the container you got the sodium hydroxide from? If not go to the web site of the manufacturer and look it up there. Safety data must be posted by law. MSDS= material data safety sheet. Look up the MSDS. Do not use another mfgr's MSDS because there are differences and you should only use the one by the company that made the product.

[Clan Delaney]

It seems to me that any chemical cleaner is required to give directions for disposal. Are you saying this is not given on the label of the container you got the sodium hydroxide from? If not go to the web site of the manufacturer and look it up there. Safety data must be posted by law. MSDS= material data safety sheet. Look up the MSDS. Do not use another mfgr's MSDS because there are differences and you should only use the one by the company that made the product.

Dave's answer is much better than mine. Do what he says!

[hard maple]

Loggers celebrate earth day evey day!!!!

[Haynes Forest Products]

I can tell you what not to do.........DONT ever try and save time by mixing all the chemicals for your hot tub in a small plastic pail in the house and then walk the 50ft to the tub.
OH and another thing never take a big chunk of Potassium Nitrate the stuff they store in oil from chemistry class and dump into a bucket of water and spray it with a garden hose. Did I ever mention that most things are My fault

[Brent]

Well I put this question to the Proctor Research extension and got a politically correct response.

So after some google searching found some MSDS at kencro.ca and what they suggest for spills is about what I expected.

Use dilute solutions so reactions are low key

This page shows a lot of the solutions we use in the sugar shack.
Look down on each page to spills or land spills to see how to neutralize each.

http://www.kencro.ca/product_information.htm

[Russell Lampron]

Brent

I am guilty of just pumping mine onto the ground. It is followed by about 300 gallons of permeate so it gets diluted, not neutralized, pretty well. I just checked and the grass is coming in nice and green in the spot that I drain it to.

I know that this isn't the answer that you are looking for but I do cut down on the amount of it that I drain out by reusing my wash water at least 3 times before I pump it out. If it looks good after the third wash I will still reuse it. I check and adjust the ph if it is needed each time that I do a wash.