200 PSI Benchmark test.

[Justin Turco]

I acid washed and soaked for 5 days. Rinsed. Then washed. Rinsed again. And did a "benchmark" test. I used permiate for the test. Ran the pressure at 150 psi. I got about 1.9 gpm permiate and 1.0 gpm from the concentrate side. At 57 degrees. That's 174 gph.

With sap I typically got: 1 gpm of permiate, .5 gpm concentrate at 50 degrees and 300 psi. (My machine is 125 gph unit.)

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Here is how the data sheet reads for my 4 X40 Hydranautic PVD1 membrane.



conductivite'----------temperature--filtrat--concentre'-----pression

concentre'---filtrat-----------------------------------------lbs/po2
525---------125-----------70---------1.4------.6-----------150

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They don't test these membranes with sap at the factory do they? Why would my numbers be so high?

The membrane seemed to work great this year. I tested the permiate and couldn't detect any sugar getting through.


Second Question: Where should I buy antifreeze for this machine? And how is it used? I do have preservative which I would want to add as well. Thanks for the help. Justin

[Russell Lampron]

Justin I do the preservative treatment just before I remove the membrane for the off season. I don't use anti freeze either. I disconnect the hoses at the membrane housing, remove the drain plug from the feed pump and open the drain and feed valves. That drains all of the water out of it so that it won't freeze.

How did you like using the RO? Was it more fun to boil concentrated sap?

[Justin Turco]

Russ, Mike up at leader said I would want to have "some" liquid in the bottom of the cylinder that the membrane is in, to keep it moist. I heard somewhere that the antifreeze is supposed to lubricate the pumps as well...? I kept it in the cellar this winter but would like to leave it in it's space in 09'-10'.

He did say to open the bottom drain (the center). Because that would have sugar in it and get kind of nasty. Of course if I've been concentrating water during the bench test, that would probably flush most of the sugar out of the center I would think?

Oh...I'll tell you. I really like boiling concentrated sap. My evaporator got 3 times bigger. Yeaaah! This machine is really the right size for my operation too. 300-500 gallons of sap / day....perfect. I will say this though. My front pan (2' X 2) still nitre's up from one side to the other, at the end of the day and forces me to shut down just about the time I'm running out of sap. Maybe we have a lot of minerals in our soil? A second pan would be needed if I had more taps. (With the way I've been treating my front pan lately, I'll be getting a second pan sooner than later. But that's a story to found on another post.)

I remember you telling me I'd like it and to go for it, when I was looking at this machine.

Good advice.

[markcasper]

Is sodium metasifilbate the preservative? There is sodium hydroxide, thats the saop for daily rinse?

[Justin Turco]

Is sodium metasifilbate the preservative? There is sodium hydroxide, thats the saop for daily rinse?

Yes on the preservative.

The soap is from arablo and is called "sani osmo" but doesn't say on the label what the active ingredient is. They warn against using it with membrains other then the hydranautic pvd1.

citric acid is what is used for the acid wash.

[Justin Turco]

Still curious about the antifreeze. $45 dollars is a lot of money for a gallon of antifreeze. I'll fork it over if I must, but if anybody knows of a safe correct alternative, I'd prefer that. Russ, I hear you on the idea of just draining things out. But I'm still worried about not having a little moisture in there to keep the membrain damp.

Thanks y'all. JT

[Jim Brown]

JustinTurco: I have a RO just like Russ's and we take the membrane out of the unit and store it in the tube it came in . Long wash-rinse-rinse-rinse and pull it out and place in tube.Then we fill the tube with permiate and screw on the lid TIGHT, let her sit in a heated area(don't let it freeze) and wait till next year Like Russ we drain our unit and don't leave any liquid to freeze.

Jim

[Russell Lampron]

Justin like Jim I remove my membrane and store it in the tube that it came in filled with permeate. I store it my bedroom in a corner where it is safe.

[Justin Turco]

The lack of people telling me what to do about antifreeze tells me I am the only one, or one of the few actually considering it. I could make a pvc holding cylinder right? Maybe use 5 inch pvc and fill with distilled water? You've got me thinking here. I think my membrane would have to come out the bottom of the "cylinder" it's in. The top of my cylinder has been crimped for some strange reason. I'll look at that. Thanks. Justin

[sapman]

Justin, seems like anyone with an Airablo unit gets told to use the glycol, whether it'll freeze or not. They say it is good for lubrication of pumps, etc. So I use it. I thought about the glycol at TSC for $5-10, but Mike told me he'd play it safe, so I spend the money. I think Mike's a good straight-shooter, and take his advice. I leave my membrane in the vessel. But to get your's out, you need to get the vessel off the machine, flip it, and take it apart that way. I just don't see the advantage of taking it out, though. I know many who leave it in and don't have problems. Again, the Airablo versus Lapierre or CDL debate. I'm not saying I'm right, but it seems to be working OK.

Tim

[Russell Lampron]

It is real easy to remove the membrane from my Lapierre. I do it so that I have the peace of mind of knowing that it isn't going to freeze and so that I don't have to keep my RO room heated all winter.

[sapman]

Russ, if I let my wife read your post, I'll definitely have to remove my membrane! She tries to keep a tight budget, and the little heater in the RO room uses like $15/month.

Tim

[Russell Lampron]

Tim my wife keeps a close eye on the budget too. That's why the RO gets cleaned up first. The sooner that I can shut off the heater the better.

[Brent]

Justin
I have a jug of Glycol and it seem to me that the instructions called for cutting it 4:1 with permeate.

I'll check it when I get home tonight. I would be in favour of leaving some fluid in the tanks and pumps too. I just don't like the idea of them being dry and freezing at -35 in before the season gets going.

I'm planning on bringing my membranes in for the off season as well.

[Justin Turco]

Hi everyone, I went down to Grimm here in Rutland, they carry glycol so I bought a gallon and per the instructions: mixed it 50/50 with permiate, added an ounce of preservative. Then ran the wash cycle. So, hopefully that 50/50 mix, combined with the residual water that was in the machine will still give me adequate freeze protection....

On another note: I painted the wood floor gray, in the RO room yesterday...looks nice. Today I was painting the exterior of the RO room barn red to match the rest of the building.