Prepare for Bulk Prices to Drop

[ennismaple]

Here's a copy of part of an e-mail we received from LB Maple Treats today. They had set prices a few weeks ago that were $3.50/lb ($CDN) for the top 4 grades. Those of you who sold your syrup already and got $3.50 or better should consider yourselves lucky. Those of you holding on to it should consider getting rid of it ASAP before prices drop even more.

Here's part of the e-mail:

I'm the bearer of bad news today.....we will NOT honor what we have told everyone. It was a very complicated and difficult decision but it is made.

- We will not pay $3.50/lb
- We will pay Federation Prices + $0.25 bonus (top 4 grades) for everyones troubles.

Reason's why:

- Our customers realize that there is a bumper crop and refuse to pay more than the Federation prices for the syrup.
- We estimate a 40 million pound surplus....this being the case, we could get our entire supply from the Federation and Federation prices.

We apologize for this and we fully understand that this will hurt our reputation as well as your reputation's.....but, it is a survival measure that must be taken.


I'm not happy about this but the syrup we're selling we don't have a market for so we really don't have any other options. I doubt the sincerity of a company that bought our local bulk buyer (Delta Foods in Brockville) only to close it down about 6 months later! I'll definitely look into other options for future years.

[maplecrest]

bulk prices dropped here 2 weeks ago 2.90 for top 3 and 2.70 for da and 2.50 for comm

[Jeff E]

other bulk buyers giving prices?

Wisc price is about the same as those listed here....

[Mark]

What are the prices in Wisconsin?
Andersons quoted a price of L 2.70 M 2.65 D 2.60 Comm 2.25

[caseyssugarshack93]

2.70lb for Dark amber and 2.50lb for com is what were getting here

[Dave Y]

Syrup prices are set to drop again Monday! I am selling tomorrow and I am told they will honor the current posted price. However by monday Grade C will be$2 lbs. some of you may think that is terrible, with some of us making so much dark syrup. However, anytime you get $2lbs for C you are doing well.

[fred]

if you hold on to your syrup they will have to keep the price up.even with 40 million surplus,there was shortage to start with and a 20 million lb increased demand. think about it , I CALL BS!

[maplwrks]

I dumped all of my syrup last week. I got $2.90 a pound pretty much across the board. I sold 2 barrels of commercial yesterday for $2.50 a pound. Many producers have their heads in the sand and are holding their syrup thinking that it will go up in the fall. My opinion is that I don't think you will see these prices in the fall. $4.00 syrup is gone for some time, don't think you'll get that this year----Though I've been known to eat crow every now and again!!! I have heard that commercial will be below $2 a pound by next week.

[twobears1224]

how does anybody know if theres a surplus?? we,re still boiling down here and at this point everything is here say and what i,ve been told only the producers with vacuum made anything and there's very few producers in this area with vacuum.i,am in the heart of ny's maple producing area.

[802maple]

Two bears you are one hundred percent right about the only sugarmakers that had vacuum made syrup, but the only thing is where the syrup is made in the world, nearly everyone that sugars has vacuum. In Canada there are towns that make as much syrup as all of New York. It is common for them to have sugarbushes that tap 100,000 taps, they think that sugarmakers that tap 20,000 are hobbyist. I don't consider it hear say when it comes from the horses mouth. The market increased 2 years ago but you will find that it didn't last year. Do I believe that all syrup should be down to 2.00 a lb, of course not but it may.
Even here in Vermont I could name 50 sugarmakers with 5000 and up to 30,000 taps that have made a 1/2 gallon a tap and that turns into a big pile of drums of syrup. Another thing that tells me there is a lot of syrup is it is nearly impossible to find a good empty drum.

I may lose some purchases for running my mouth, but as maplewrks said don't put your head in the sand and then when reality strikes say I didn't think that could happen

[KenWP]

Well I am on buckets and I have had to pull bucket off trees the last two day as 5 gallons of sap per bucket has flooded me out. I can hardely find a plastic jug to put syrup in at D&G as all they have is the tiney ones left. Takes a lot of jugs to bottle syrup that way. I have thousands of trees that I can tap that show no signs of buds yet even in this heat.

[ennismaple]

Drums were extremely hard to find in Ontario over the past few weeks and 4L jugs have been scarce for a month. Every producer I talked to had an excellent season and the BIG producers in Quebec enjoyed the same weather. The bulk buyer I quoted comes to Ontario from Quebec and if the Federation says that's the price you won't be able to find anyone offering more.

[Amber Gold]

How much does this effect retail prices...particularly in NH?

[802maple]

It shouldn't effect prices at all, but in reality it will as sugarmakers will start selling their product cheaper than their neighbor just to get rid of it instead of selling it to a packer. I wouldn't be surprised by mid summer to start seeing syrup selling in the low 30's. That is just my guess as it is the nature of the beast.

[3% Solution]

Hey guys,
Think about this ..... of course there is all kinds of syrup around, we just got done making it!!!
Others are still making it, of course there is a surplus!!
The big buyers start selling it and guess what, it's gone, they'll need more.
Hold onto it if you can, it doesn't spoil, the boys north of the border hold onto it, we can!!!!
I think the word is boycott.

[Haynes Forest Products]

So selling my 220 gallons of HOBBIE syrup for $3.00 wasnt such a bad thing. And the funny thing is it is a hobby and I made money this year at my hobby that aint bad.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I am glad to see the prices drop, not glad everyone is getting less in their pockets, but glad to save the industry. Another bad year or two in a row and syrup prices would have kept going up to a point of disaster in my opinion. Two years ago, anyone would have given anything for the bulk prices they are getting now. Amazing what a few months of absurd bulk prices does to people's thinking and breeds greed.

[Mud Island Maple]

Took a couple of 5-gallon containers of syrup to Maple Grove in St. Johnsbury this past Monday and had a nice chat with Haven King who receives the syrup (we went to high school together). He told me a couple of interesting things-- that 4.00 /lb syrup last year was to get syrup to supply one of their big accounts and this account was blending maple syrup with cane syrup at a 55 to 45 ratio and had had no complaints from any of their customers -restaurants and retail. They plan to continue the practice so there goes a market for a huge quantity of syrup. He also told me that their plant in Canada had taken in millions of pounds of syrup from producers who were worried about a price drop--enough syrup to fill 100 tractor trailer trucks. So I think the days of 3.00 and 4.00 dollar syrup are gone for a while. ( I got 2.90/lb for fancy).

[ennismaple]

Hey guys,
Think about this ..... of course there is all kinds of syrup around, we just got done making it!!!
Others are still making it, of course there is a surplus!!
The big buyers start selling it and guess what, it's gone, they'll need more.
Hold onto it if you can, it doesn't spoil, the boys north of the border hold onto it, we can!!!!
I think the word is boycott.

I don't think it'll matter what any of us do. The total number of taps of everyone at Mapletrader.com is probably less than 1/10 of 1% of what's in Quebec. The Federation controls the market and dictates the terms. I wish I could have said "screw you" and kept my syrup but I've got some signnificant bills to pay and I don't have the retail market for what I'm selling.

[jrthe3]

how long do you think bulk syrup will last i will sit on it for 3 4 or even 5 year or longer if i have to it anit costing me anything sitting in sugar house i not selling it for less then 3 dollars a pound

[Amber Gold]

Brandon, I don't think people were being greedy, I think they were just happy to finally make some money on a hobby/business that requires a lot of time and money which really hasn't been compensated for. If you were to break out your hourly rate off of what you make after expenses (equipment, wood, materials, and etc.) you are paid pennies per hour. I just finished reading Needing's book on maple sugaring and back in the 40's a gallon was worth a day's wages and retailed for about $3. I'm not saying he's correct, but 8 hours at min. wage is about $56 and at a living wage is $80+ per gallon. Syrup prices were finally getting close last year to what they should be. I think $50's, maybe $60's, is good and if you're market will support it, why not charge more. I think ag. producers fall into the habit of not being duly compensated for their product.

[tapper]

Josh,
Very well said! My thoughts exactly.

[Amber Gold]

Thanks Jon.

[brookledge]

jrthe3
As far as keeping the bulk syrup.If it is in stainless and was hot packed properly you can keep it for quite some time if you wanted to get a higher price. However if it was put into plastic containers chances are that after a few months the syrup will drop a grade. So you need to remember that. When syrup is the same for all grades as it was last year then it doesn't matter. You could freeze it to keep it the best but not many have that option.
for me I may just sit on alot of it until someday when the price goes back up.
I have never gone longer than 3 years but I have not needed to but when I did keep syrup in kegs for 3 years it was just like it was the day it went in.
Keith

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Josh,

I am not finger pointing as I agree maple syrup is truly worth about $ 100 a gallon but we all know we will not get that out of it at least for probably 20 years until inflation goes thru the roof and then it would be the same as current prices. What I meant is that many producers were hoping for prices to keep going up and what they are not looking at is down the road they won't be able to hardly give it away in a few years.

I average $ 50 a gallon retail selling it in quarts and pints and I will I could get $ 100 or $ 25 a quart as it is truly worth that. I sold over $ 3900 of retail in 2008 and still lost money when I did my taxes last year as I do every year and I don't like it anymore than anyone else especially since I have an accounting degree.

[argohauler]

Took a couple of 5-gallon containers of syrup to Maple Grove in St. Johnsbury this past Monday and had a nice chat with Haven King who receives the syrup (we went to high school together). He told me a couple of interesting things-- that 4.00 /lb syrup last year was to get syrup to supply one of their big accounts and this account was blending maple syrup with cane syrup at a 55 to 45 ratio and had had no complaints from any of their customers -restaurants and retail. They plan to continue the practice so there goes a market for a huge quantity of syrup. He also told me that their plant in Canada had taken in millions of pounds of syrup from producers who were worried about a price drop--enough syrup to fill 100 tractor trailer trucks. So I think the days of 3.00 and 4.00 dollar syrup are gone for a while. ( I got 2.90/lb for fancy).

I was at my parents for a family dinner tonight and I saw a little jar on the counter. It came from Cracker Barrel restaurant. Dad eats there when he's in Buffalo. It had 55% maple syrup and 45% cane syrup.

ennismaple, you can try Jakeman's to sell your bulk to as well. I've yet to go there this spring and sell them my last run of dark, to help settle my bill. I'm waiting for a cruddy day to go when I can't work out in the bush.

[twobears1224]

the available supply is only part of the equation..demand makes up the other side and i hear thats really good...so,i guess we,ll see how things turn out in the end.

delbert

[markcasper]

I was in our local wal-mart today and noticed that Maple Grove had 3/4 pints and was the ONLY pure maple there. There always was some Canadian outfit that had 1/2 pints right next to Maple Grove's in the past. Anyone know whats up with that? I noticed jars of molasses filling the Canadian 1/2 pints former space.

[ennismaple]

ennismaple, you can try Jakeman's to sell your bulk to as well. I've yet to go there this spring and sell them my last run of dark, to help settle my bill. I'm waiting for a cruddy day to go when I can't work out in the bush.

Thanks - but they're almost 6 hours from us. Last time I checked the prices they were paying for bulk were far below market rates.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Costco In Parker Colo was selling quarts at $18.49 Pure Syrup from Canada

[220 maple]

I believe I predicted that syrup prices would fall because of over production. If I can remember correctly they dropped the quota for producers in the Federation, I was told they added 1 million extra taps. An finally after two bad syrup seasons they got and in some case are still getting perfect syrup making weather. I talked to a syrupmaker/ Bulk Buyer who had talked to producers up north who are at a crop and a half and are still making syrup, Some may get a double crop. A double crop would allow them to take next year off. But they won't. I wouldn't! Another factor is the syrup in the stores is not moving, At our local Costco they had two skids of quarts, Dark Amber from Brown's Maple Farm in Vermont. It is priced $16.99 with tax should come out around $17.30 a quart. There was three quart jugs missing. I went in a Giant Food Store in Fredricksburg, Va. Saturday, Three brands for sell all in 12 ounce glass bottles, the unit price by the quart was post beside the selling price. Canadian Made $29.30 a qt, Maple Grove $23.60 a qt, an the Giant Brand $21.60 a qt. I have sold a lot of syrup this spring my quart price is $12.00. Again my 2 cents worth


Mark 220 Maple

[KenWP]

They increased the quota 48% for the last two years is what they did. New producers still have to put in for new quota in order to sell to the federation. They had also set the base price up tp 2010. This is also the first year they have had crop insurance which is based on the average yeild over a 5 year period.
If the weather held we could make syrup for a while yet as the trees still have no buds in places.

[PATheron]

WHOOAH!!! Whats all this talk about 2$ a pound syrup. Are you guys kidding around or what. Ive only been at this two years now but I thought that to calculate your crop and value you take your tap count and devide by two to get your gallon count. Take that times 11 for your pounds, unless you make it a little heavy like I do, then multiply by 4$. No?, Im misunderstanding something? Theeee(syrup all over the place looking for someone to give me the 4$ getting really lonely)rooon:lol:

[jason grossman]

I just returned from a week in quebec. i was visiting producers from new brunswick and quebec. they are all having a bumper year!! they all expect to have a 125 million pound crop this year. far above last years. prices are going down!!!!! 3.00 a pound will be hard to find i think we will be lucky with 2.45 a pound for good syrup and 2.00 for lower grades no one believes it will reach 3.50 or above for a long time again!! good luck to everyone, my crop goes all retail so i don't worry to much about bulk, but if you bulk and you were thinking of 4 a pound ooopppsss!!

[802maple]

I know I am part of the evil empire being a buyer, but I tried to tell people on here 2 weeks ago what was happening (when there was higher prices available from packers all across the maple belt) and all that was said I was out to lunch and this couldn't possibly happen. Quebec has added 3,000,000 taps this year and I dare say that there has been 1 million added down here and if all of them produced only a quart a tap that would end being an additional million gallons of syrup or roughly what Vermont and New York make on a average year. Lets hope that the Fedration banks a good amount of this surplus so that prices don't go any lower.

[PerryW]

Makes me glad I kept my prices affordable for my long-term customers and didn't sell my crop in bulk at the higher prices last year.

Personally, I like to try to eek out every dollar of profit from a gallon on syrup instead of giving it to the equipment dealers and syrup dealers.

I try to keep sugaring as a hobby that puts out around $5,000 gross; which only impacts me from March 5 to May 5 (2 months) and has little expenses besides gas for the sap truck and container costs.

[tuckermtn]

couldn't agree with you more Perry...

[maplwrks]

802---It didn't take long to go from HERO to ZERO did it!!! You're a HERO to me---I got good $$$$ for my syrup!!!

[maplecrest]

i cant see how you can say hero to zero. jerry has told the story right along. and with all taps added and prime sugaring weather. if anyone has been in the maple business long would think that 2.65 is a good price. my farm prices have stayed the same thru this whole thing hoping to keep my customers.this happened once before and the end result was far worse than now when it went to .90 cents a #. so for all you get rich quickers, you better stop and think about the bottom line. that is where we were last year. lets see oil was 3.35 a gallon, 1.99 this year. tubing 50 plus a roll. 40 this year. i can go on but if you think about it, it is a good price that they are going to offer.2.50 for comm is a good price right now.

[maplwrks]

Jeff--I was just busting Jerrys' a--.!! I agree with you completely--Many traders got into this business when prices were high and never thought that Canada could make that much syrup in 1 year. I think that this was discussed about this time last year, that prices could go back to the cellar fast. Many on this site can't believe it. Canada added 1.5 million taps last year and they had a horrible year. They added 3 million new taps this year--thats 4.5 million new taps in 2 years. Did we not think that they were going to make a LOT more syrup???

[hookhill]

Well I was at Goodrich's this morning, spending more money on surgaing and thier commercial bulk price is $1.90. I about cried. The main problem is expectations. If you expect $2.00/lb then thats one thing but after busting your *** thinking your gonna get more........well...that hurts. Many people made dark syrup this year so there will be a surplus of the dark. That may drop the price even more. Its a tough business.

[Homestead Maple]

NHMaple 48 and I took some Dark syrup to Bascom's today. NHMaple was quoted 2.80 a pound yesterday for dark but when we got there today they were paying 2.60. A sign of the times.

I was in the local Hannaford store yesterday afternoon and checked out their syrup prices while I was there. Maine Medium organic syrup was $16.99 a quart, Hannaford brand dark syrup, a product of Canada/USA was $17.99 a quart, and Maple Gold, a Canadian product, was $24.99 for a quart of dark. I thought organic was suppose to bring the higher price?

[Fred Henderson]

For once I am glad to be a small time producer. I have a low overhead and did buy very much new stuff this year. I will break a little better than even.

[Haynes Forest Products]

For me this has always been a fun thing to do /hobby. I never ever got into this as a way to make money. I did it because it was fun and I could do it with other people that shared in my crazy Hobby. As I got bigger and better and invested more money I still did it because it was FUN and I had a passion for it. I could have stayed small and made 5 gallons but I kept seeing just one more tree thats was close. I baught land and put up a shack and filled it with equipment. I always was looking for more sap and shiner equipment with the end result being the best possible product I could make. Like a man with a row boat that wants to fish deeper water and catch bigger fish It was always about having fun.
Over the years I sold what I couldnt use and was always happy with the "EXTRA" cash I got..........NOT MADE BUT "GOT" because I have never made any money if you do the math. Last year was a hard year for ME because of the price of oil both in travel to get to my shack and to produce the syrup BUT I loved it just the same. Did it stress my wife because I orderd oil at $3.76 per gallon Hell yes. Did it stop me from going into debt to boil the sap that was filling the tanks hell NO.
I sold everything that I didnt need this year to my 'EVIL" packer/wholesaler/equipment supplier. The one that sold me most all my equipment at a very fair price and shipped to me ASAP anyting I needed to keep going or allowed me to make payments on releasers or as it turns out new pans that I set on fire. That "EVIL" person that paid me $3.00 a lb 15 days ago and I never asked for a dividend check if things went higher.
I dropped off my syrup and "GOT" a nice check that paid for my entire vacation and expenses and for that Im happy as can be. I hope the traders that I see posting on this site that do this as a hobby dont lose site of why they are doing it...........I also know there are traders that do this for a living and I understand that also. If syrup prices moderate at $2.50/2.00 you will still find me on this forum trying to help /encurage new traders and sharing my passion with all that still have it...........H.F.P

[PATheron]

Brother says were eating it. He says we can do a 100 gallons per month. I dont know, seems like a lot. Thats a lot of pancakes! Theee( gonna be using 55 gallon drums for candy molds)roooon.

[Russell Lampron]

Jerry you are still a HERO in my book. We wouldn't know as much about what is going on in the bulk market if you weren't telling us about it here.

[802maple]

Thanks for the cheers guys. You know I work for the man and the man pays me and that is what keeps me in my pickup, house and my oversized jeans or atleast for most people they are. For me they are a bit tight. Do I agree with the man all the time, absolutely not, If I could everybody would have a decent check after every season, but unfortunately it is beyond me. I was a sugarmaker long before I was a buyer and believe this not the first time this has happened, the price goes up and everybody heads for the equipment dealers and expands and the price goes down when the first big season comes along. Then we have to go out and market ourselves to a higher level and get rid of the surplus. Then guess what the price goes up and everybody heads for the equipment dealers.........................and the story repeats itself.
I know that last year excited some of you especially the ones that haven't been through this before. I now it is huge decrease but what is being payed right now is a lot higher then what the average has been for the past ten years. 3 years ago most sugarmakers would have laughed in your face if you said you would be getting 2.00 to 2.50 a pound for commercial syrup this year.
Haynes, sometimes you and I have disagreed on certain things but you and I are on the same page here.

To the rest of you, keep your heads and market yourselves and your product and there will be silver lining in this. Remember every door that closes usually opens another one.

[Dave Y]

I have only been in this business for six years. But it reminds me so much of the fur market it is not funny. I have been in it for over 30 yrs. there are highs and lows in every market. Stay in it long enough and you will end up with a good average.

[Squaredeal]

So after all this talk, what are the current prices?
What is Maple Groves offering? What prices have the Federation set? Sap ran all day today and I'm still boiling. I need SOME encouragement to keep going.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Squaredeal If your only in it for the money then get out a pencill and paper and do the math and within a few equations you will have your answer. If your doing it because its a hobby/passion then you will sleep well tonight.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

The guy that has purchased most of our families bulk syrup called me this morning at 6 AM. He has the following prices today...and no guarantee beyond today. light...$3, med....$2.90, dark...$2.70, B...$250, C...$2.25, Ropey, bad flavor etc...$2.00.
Doug

[wdchuck]

Some of us have taken our hobby/passion and turned it into an antegral part of our income. When I started to treat my maple business AS a business, I became profitable.

[markcasper]

No doubt we all knew the price crash was coming! Something can't double in price in one year and not readjust itself. The thing that irritates me is the packers will be the first to lowball the price, but the last to drop it themselves.

Some on here will call me greedy, bullheaded, whiner, what have you. Most medium sized producers do not have the resources to market retail extensively and if they did, then you'd get the inevitable bad year and not have enough to supply your customer base.

With the large packers not adjusting their price accordingly, it will cause some to just up and skip real maple, making it bad for all of us. If the large packers have adjusted their price downwards, then where is it?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

OK, I don't sell any in bulk and for a good reason as I get the same every year unless I raise prices. I know a lot are losing sleep over this thinking they were going to get $ 4 @ lb or even higher this year but I think this is a blessing in disguise. There were large accounts lost last year from the high prices that will probably never be regained again and if we had another poor year and the bulk prices held the same or worse yet, went even higher, it would have really hurt the market a lot more. not for me but for many of you in the future. Remember we are in a global recession, not just US and the global markets are hurting too.

I am not saying we needed Canada to produce a double crop, but enough to drive down the bulk prices. I am doing what most others won't be doing before next season, expanding. What it normally takes me 12 months to sell in retail I have almost sold all of it in 30 days. I average $ 50 @ gallon selling quarts and pints retail which some may think is crazy but I saw no reason to increase as my prices have stayed the same for 4 years. I will probably have a small increase next year which will average about to about $ 2 a gallon which is the first increase in 4 years. I am working on building up a customer base and as far as my retail prices go, I won't change if the bulk prices are $1 or $5 per lb. A lot of people that got used to the large increase in retail this past year are going to have to back up and punt soon in the future.

[KenWP]

The federation price is $2;71 to members plus the two bounus's they have. But beyond that I have no idea.

[fred]

No doubt we all knew the price crash was coming! Something can't double in price in one year and not readjust itself. The thing that irritates me is the packers will be the first to lowball the price, but the last to drop it themselves.

Some on here will call me greedy, bullheaded, whiner, what have you. Most medium sized producers do not have the resources to market retail extensively and if they did, then you'd get the inevitable bad year and not have enough to supply your customer base.

With the large packers not adjusting their price accordingly, it will cause some to just up and skip real maple, making it bad for all of us. If the large packers have adjusted their price downwards, then where is it?

thats my point there isnt that much of a surplus. demand is higher than it has been in a long time and prodution has been short the last couple of years sooo this year canada has a good crop and us buyers use that as an excuse to lower prices even though their prices do not!

[802maple]

Remember last year when the prices went up and it took until fall before you started seeing the syrup in the large grocery stores going up. Well there was a reason for it. Most packers have to sign into contracts for 6 months and until the end of those contracts they have very little flexibility in price increases or decreases, so they were selling at the time 3.35 a pound syrup at what was bid out on syrup that was based on 2.20 and yes they were losing money, so this year thay will be making up for that until the new contracts come out.

Lets remember this is also going on in Canada and yes there are large packers up there that would be more than willing to take away Maple Grove and others customers. Just like it has in the past they will come down on their prices. If the largest packer in Canada (Spring Tree) comes down and under bids Maple Grove believe me Maple Grove will try and under bid them. I used to sell to 9 stores myself when syrup was high in the 80's and 90's and I was on easy street because I had enough product so that I didn't have to buy any and I could compete with the Maple Groves of the world. Then along came the huge surplus of the early 90's and believe me when the packers were buying for .90 a pound it didn't take long before all I had was 1 store. Just because the stores are selling at the same rate doesn't mean that the packers aren't selling at cheaper rate to them. Lets not blame everything that happens on the lowly packer, are they to blame for some yes, but lets not forget who sets the final price.

[Haynes Forest Products]

802Maple Add on the risk of selling to stores and having paid a sloting/shelving fee just to have the right to have your product on the shelf. You notice that your running low and the store or a supplier calls up and orders more than you can supply and All hell breaks lose. You miss the deadline and the store drops you cold and goes with someone cheaper and now your out on your butt...............or you pay a high price for bulk just to keep in the game. Then your small syrup supplier thinks this is the new bulk price and is upset when he cant sell at that price all year long

[802maple]

You are spot on Haynes

[markcasper]

Mr Haynes: It seems you are pretty proud that you got $3.00 /lb. Most will not get that this year. You and I are both aware that Wisconsin producers are about the most lowballed payed producers in North America.

I suppose the answer to the above will be something like "You can make a choice, haul it." "Its a free world, if you don't like it do something different."
Or some other smart, sophisticated and phylisophical answer.

The point is this, there are 3 large packers in this state with 1 of the 3 probaly controlling better than half! You know who they are. When Vermont is paying $4.00 across the board, then we are recieving at least .40 pound less. If its 2.50 there, then will be 2.10 here. What a joke!!!!
I am calling on all Wisconsin producers to band together and defeat this hidden agenda of these packers. All 3 of them seem more than well off. How can you be a packer, an equipment dealer, own 100+ acres of sugarbush and not tap it? The answer: get the $$$$$ out of the other producers. If you don't get them on one end, then they'll be ther on the other. Wis. Maple Co-op, here we come.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Markcasper I hope you read my first post of this very important thread. I'm not proud that I sold my syrup at a time when the person I sold it to was willing to give me $3.00 a lb for it. I feel lucky that I have built up a repore with someone that I count as a friend. I have been dealing with this friend/supplier for over 10 years and have always felt good about the outcome of my dealings with them. I hope fellow traders dont misunderstand what I was trying to say/do. DANNO was telling everyone about his new evaporator that a guy sold him well below market price and the guy insisted that he was not going to raise the price. Was this man guilty of undercutting equipment dealers in the area.........NO.
When I told what I sold my syrup for on a differant thread it was only as a point of intrest. Someone else chimed in and said they had also been offerd $3.00 a lb for there syrup at the same supplier And HE LAUGHED AT THEM...........well good how did it work out for him.
I will not be part of some Co op, boycott, organized effort to hold out for a better price. I wish my fellow traders the best in what they do but I still do this for fun and if that makes "ME" bad for the industry at large than I apologize.
Just got off the phone with a Mich. producer and he said he didnt even know what the going rate for finished syrup was. WHY because he didnt care. He sold all his syrup locally and sold out every year and he was happy with his price. Is he tip toeing thru the tulips without regard for his fellow producers no just doing his thing.

[danno]

The guy that has purchased most of our families bulk syrup called me this morning at 6 AM. He has the following prices today...and no guarantee beyond today. light...$3, med....$2.90, dark...$2.70, B...$250, C...$2.25, Ropey, bad flavor etc...$2.00.
Doug

I got my mailing today from my bulk purchaser (not that I sell alot of bulk - just commercial). Prices above are what I received as well. Purchase dates are next weekend.

[3rdgen.maple]

How many of you on here sell bulk? All the B grade with good flavor goes to a baker and some local smoke shops buy it for smoking salmon and steelhead. The off flavor goes to the packer. I am happy to get what I can for the off flavor syrup. I count it as a bonus and usually use it as a trade for supplies. I am in it for the fun and to carry on a family tradition. If I can recoup some of the money great. Most years I break even. This year Im in the hole for sure. I stress enough owning a business for a living and I refuse to bring that stress into the sugarhouse. The sugarhouse is a place for me and the family to get away from the stresses of the world. Lets all remember why we do this. If it is your source of finances I feel your pain with the bulk prices, if is not and just a hobby be happy with what you get. There are tons of hobbies that are alot of fun and have no return. Everytime I harvest a deer I figure that meat is costing me over $100 a pound. Everytime I release a fish it cost me money. But I do it cause it is a hobby and like maple syrup alot of fun.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

OK, so prices are down from all time highs. It appears that some of us were caught by surprise and others of us fully expected that this could or would happen. I expected a price fall and given what I now know about this years crop and a failing world wide economy, I am surprised that prices are currently the second best in history. It has already been pointed out that some of our expenses are actually down from a year ago. I make maple for a combination of things. My family have been maple producers here for about 6 generations and since I am part Huron, probably been making it somewhere for 1000 years. It is in my blood and I wouldn't know how to not make it. I enjoy outdoor pursuits regardless of the weather, maple lets me do it. I watch my 87 year old Dad in the new sugar house, building a fire in the arch and think life is pretty good! Maple has always been part of the business of this farm. Last year I sold my milk cows and now maple is the center of the farm business. Will I make money on the syrup prices I was quoted yesterday (and will probably take advantage of)? That depends on my definition of making money. If I pay myself by the hour, or consider the "opportunity costs" of me doing this instead of something else (I have a Masters Degree) I lose big time. If I figure what my costs of production are including land ownership and depreciation, I will end up in the black. That is all I ask. I have been a farmer all my life. If those who produce the food in this country (or elsewhere around the world) were paid a "fair wage" for their labors, most of us would consider food prices to be outrageous. Most of us do what we do because we love it, not to get rich from it. Did I like last years prices? Yes, they made up for some of the times when I should have left the wood in the woodshed instead of making a barrel of B. In the long run, I would rather have a price that allows me to operate in the black but does not encourage vast expansions that lead to huge price fluctuations. My increased focus on maple means that I am part of this problem this year. I boiled the sap from about twice as many trees as a year ago. It is part of a long term plan and my plans will go forward regardless of year to year price fluctuations. Some of you have seen my bush and know the difficulty and expense that I will encounter in trying to get it all on line. I did the math and figured that with a $2 minimum, I could make it work. Am I gonna get rich? Nope, unlike some in this society, I see no need for that. I do plan to eat regularly, stay warm, enjoy my family, and visit friends......and talk maple til I bore everyone to tears!
Doug

[Fred Henderson]

Very well said Doug.

[sapman]

Sounds good to me, Doug! When I started paying attention to bulk prices in 2000, $2 was pretty much unheard of. So today's prices still sound decent to me. I was hoping for high prices again like everyone, as I put a lot into expansion this year, but what I'll get should almost break me even, on a not-so-good year for me. And I'm encouraged to try and market a little more retail also.

I thank Jerry for making us aware of what was going on lately. My only gripe may be with the equipment salesmen who are always saying "Now is the time to expand" with historic prices. I guess you can't blame them, that's their job. Caveat Emptor!

Tim

[Amber Gold]

Think about, we get inside information from the "man". Jerry's a great resource for what's going on in packer world. he's also a valuable resource for everything else maple...tons of experiance.

[Bucket Head]

"Bored to tears"?

How can any true sugarmaker be bored to tears while talking about sugarmaking?

Boredom usually sets in when the maple talk stop's!

Seriously, we too are in it for enjoyment first, profit second. We like the profit, but we will make syrup wether we are making a lot, or little money.

Steve

[brookledge]

There are people out there that thought that they could get rich quick. So they went out and bought alot of $ worth of supplies thinking they could break even in a year or so and then make a good profit aftrer that.
Well with the prices dropping you may see them selling things off. This industry is for the long haul and you can't ajust like you can in other areas of agriculture. Not much else you can do with a large evaporator other than make syrup.
While I did sell some last year at 4/lb and thought that was great I will still be making it no matter what the prices are.
It wasn't that long ago that many producers that used oil and didn't have a RO wouldn't make any commercial since it cost more to make than they could sell it for.
Keith

[hookhill]

This is a good thread and there are many good thoughts being expressed. My family and I have much to learn about sugaring. One thing we did learn from this price drop is yes you have to average everything out over the years.

[argohauler]

Heard from my syrup supplies supplier that the Quebec Federtion is only going to allow each producer to submit 75% of their quota. What do you think the prodeucers will do with that other 25%?

He also told me that Quebec has an estimated production of 100 million pounds.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I bet they cant sell it retail in Canada but they could dump it in The good old USA Thanks NAFTA

[jdj]

Thompson tree farm:

Who is the bulk buyer that quoted you the bulk prices?

[Clan Delaney]

There are people out there that thought that they could get rich quick. So they went out and bought alot of $ worth of supplies thinking they could break even in a year or so and then make a good profit aftrer that.
Well with the prices dropping you may see them selling things off. This industry is for the long haul and you can't ajust like you can in other areas of agriculture. Not much else you can do with a large evaporator other than make syrup.
Keith

Well, that's good news for those of us long-haulers looking to pick up some "used" equipment at a decent price.

[Justin Turco]

Patrick, Dude....Nice building. And excellent blog. Your a good writer.. I was looking for more. You need an evaporator! Hang in there. You'll find one.

[Bill'sSugarShack]

Went and took some OLD syrup up to Bascom's yesterday. $2.25 for C-grade.. Not bad considering some was 5+ yrs old..cleaned out all my old stuf...115 lbs worth.

[Maplewalnut]

OK, I'll throw my two cents in.

Maple syrup is and probably always will be a commodity market. That means prices will flutuate based on the old supply and demand concept. Without organized marketing strategies and large state/region co-ops, we will always be at the mercy of our neighbors to the north. Like farming we are a weather dependent product. My prediction all along has been that many that jumped into the easy money at $4.00 lb+ last year will probably be exiting as quickly as they got in after a good year in Canada. Seems like that has already started.

As Canada controls probably 90% of the world's suppply, you have to relish in their misfortune and ride out their success. In this case weather works for the smaller US producer. If weather was predictable and consistent there would be no market for small bulk producers.

If you enjoy it as a hobby like most of us do, its easier. If you count on the income, start diversifying and create niche retail markets to overcome the lowering bulk prices. And for goodness sakes listen to Jerry(802 maple) he's the closest thing to the pulse I have seen and willing to give fellow traders the heads up they may need to be successful.

[Squaredeal]

Remember that Quebec controls exactly 0% of the world's supply of Vermont (insert state here) Maple Syrup. Create a niche market, point out what is special about your product, and you will never have to worry about what they are doing up there.

[KenWP]

I know that up here a lot of the maple sryup producers have signs at the front gate saying they have maple products for sale. Almost all of them seem to want people driving around stopping by and picking up some. This syrup is product that has nothing to do with the quota system and they probbably can make good money on it. If I had the capibilities to bottle it and such I could probbably do the same as my place was a commercial greenhouse for 45 years before I bought it and still has the black top for the gas station that was here before that so I have room for people to park and move around in the yard. That will all be in the future at the moment.

[220 maple]

FALLING PRICES
Thanks for the heads up from all of you about the amount of syrup being made up north. I heeded your info and unloaded my bulks syrup last week before prices went into a free fall. I recieved 2.50 lb for C, the most I ever got for that grade. I recieved even better for my B and Dark Amber, because the person I sell to has customers that are willing to pay that higher price, he has alot of Bed and Breakfast Inns further south than us who want his syrup. He did not mind paying me the higher price for bulk syrup. My suggestion to those of you that can't stand to sell at the lower prices would be to find other ways to add value to your syrup, Candy, Coated Nuts, Syrup in Glass, for example I filled 144 small glass leafs for one customer and after all expences was accounted for the syrup had a value of over 90 dollars a gallon.
Sugar candy raises the value of my syrup to over 60 dollars a gallon, but coating nuts is where the big money is, that number is so large per gallon I'm to embarrassed to posted it.
Again thanks for the heads-up

Mark 220 Maple

[troes30]

whose buying bulk for $3? i might be interested in selling some to pay my bills...would like to hold onto the bulk of it but gotta pay the man...Leader in this case. Tim

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

US syrup/state specific will more than likely always be in higher demand south of the border as most people here want to buy US syrup, not Canadian syrup and that is nothing against anyone north of the border as I think everyone understands where I am coming from. In some ways, this helps US produced syrup that Canada produces 80%+ of the world's syrup as there isn't enough US syrup to supply the demands for it.

[maple sapper]

From my understanding NH and VT. have their own grades (which are equal at 66.9% sugar) vs US and Canada (which is 66%). Correct me if Im wrong. So, that alone should be worth a bit more for the increase in sugar, time, and fuel. NH and VT grades supersceed the US requirements. So, this in my eyes makes worth alittle more. I'm not sure if this is accounted for when bulking it out. Is it?

[Russell Lampron]

All bulk syrup is purchased by the lb. If the density is a little heavy you get more $$ for your gallon of syrup.

[Mark]

If you have a 100 lbs of syrup but boil it a little too far down to 98 lbs you get paid for 98 lbs. Then the packer adds 2 pounds of water to get it back to the right density they end up with 100 lbs but paid for 98 lbs.
The dealers in Wisconsin sell Vermont hydrometers calibrated to 66.9 but if they get thick syrup they water it down to 66. All the water they add is free syrup.

[ziggy]

Correct me if I am wrong, are not most hydrometers calibrated the same? I am not in VT, but my hydrometer was calibrated there. So the standard might be 66.9 in VT and NH and 66.0 for the rest of us, but we are actually producing our syrup at 66.9

[Mark]

I don't know if they are calibrated all the same, but shoot for 66 brix and you will sell more pounds of syrup.

Haven King at Maple Grove told me when they buy syrup from the Canadian Federation and if it is over 66 brix they have a graph that they must go by and pay more per pound.
If I bring in thick syrup it is my fault and tough luck.

[Squaredeal]

"thick" syrup weighs more and therefore you get paid more. The converse is also true. That is why it is sold by the pound. I know some guys that boil whatever they are going to sell in bulk to higher densities so that they can get more in the barrel.

[Mark]

Next time you buy bulk ask them for thick syrup so you can water it down before you bottle it. I would ask for 69 brix and see what they say, your reply would be "don't worry I am buying by the pound"

[Mark]

Another way to say it is once you go past 66 brix every pound of water you send up your steam stack is one less pound on the buyers scale.

[michiganfarmer]

Well, that's good news for those of us long-haulers looking to pick up some "used" equipment at a decent price.

thats what I was thinking

[tuckermtn]

got a quote from Bascoms this afternoon- B is 2.50, filtered C is 2.25, and unfiltered C is 2.00 a lb.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I always bottle and sell my syrup at 67 brix hot. Yeah, I know it costs me aprox 2 ounces of syrup per gallon, but customers like it better and customers come first. I only retail and if I was bulking, I would only sell it at 66.

[Snow Hill Farm]

I was quoted $2.00 a pound for C yesterday and the other grades ranged from 2.20 to 2.50 by a bulk buyer here in VT. I was told that Canada had a record year and produced enough to meet the demand and wouldn't even need U.S. syrup to make up the difference (like in past years). I was also told the price may drop a little more, not good news...

[ennismaple]

I was also told the price may drop a little more, not good news...

Unless you've got enough demand that you can buy bulk syrup and repackage it.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Talked to my buyer today. He has been told by the people he buys for not to purchase any more syrup until things "settle out". Guess that is to be interpreted Bottom out.
Doug

[KenWP]

Flyer came out today for the one store that sells maple syrup from local guys and they have dropped the price a dollar a can since a couple of weeks ago. $6:99 for a 540ml can instead of $7:99.

[802maple]

I guess i know who they are buying for.


Talked to my buyer today. He has been told by the people he buys for not to purchase any more syrup until things "settle out". Guess that is to be interpreted Bottom out.
Doug

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I had a call last night from a neighbor who has some bulk syrup to sell. He has not made syrup in several years and had made arrangements for an Amish neighbor to use his equipment and trees on a shares basis. He had gone to a local buyer who he has dealt with for several years and borrowed the barrels hence is limited as to where he can sell. Long story short, the buyer is not buying......