preheater

[gmcooper]

I am thinking of adding a preheater to our 3x10 king that was new last spring. I'm not sure if this will pay for itself or even come close. Some friends claim they work great and raise sap temp to 180 or higher. Others are not nearly as happy with the results. Also we would need to remove preheater for a few days when we do group tours and the hood blocks to much of what is happening in the evaporator. Does anyone remove theirs and reinstall during the season? Also we are wood fired and will be using forced draft.

[brookledge]

I feel they are worth it. As far as removing for tours I would not bother because you would have to disconect the pipes and reconnect after you took the hood off. On mine I have 4 doors two on each side and when people come they can look inside ok and see what is going on. I do have mine set up with cord and pulleys so that when I clean I can hoist the whole assembly straight up and leave it in the air. I have never heard of anybody taking the hood off for tours. As far as people not satisfied the only thing I can say is that you need to size the pre-heater to the evaporator, too small and you can't get it hot and, too big and the possibility of vapor locking. If your sap is entering at 180-200 you will notice higher capacities per hour

[Brian]

Gmcooper, I think I was told that a steam hoods improve the efficiency 17-20%. The best part is steam control and the hot water to wash equipment with.

[DAVE]

Brian is right on about the free hot water, not having to skim the back pan isnt bad either. We use sliding doors on our rig to show off the back pan
But several guys Glenn Goodrich for one have installed windows and explsion proof lighting under their hoods for viewing

[mapleman3]

Why don't you have to skim? what makes it not foam up?

[pegjam]

Even without a preheater or steamhood you should try to keep the back pan from foaming up. I use either butter or a commercial defoamer. If you don't "knock" down the foam it acts like a cover and reduces the boil that you have or should have. Decreasing the foam will increase the gph of sap that you can boil.

pegjam
4x14 small bros, wore out wife, two kids, a mule, whole lota chickens, turkeys, 2 coonhounds, and a milkcow.
Hope this helps, can't hurt.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have a plexiglass sliding doors on my hood, but I am not brave enough to put a light inside even though it could be done really easily. I finished installing my hood and preheater today along with my blower and I can't wait to test it out. I am only 6 weeks from tapping, so I am going to be brave and skip the test boil. I don't see any reason to have a test boil as everything seems to be fine. I may test the head pressure and preheater setup with cold water, but we'll see.

I hope a preheater makes a lot of difference. I have 30+ feet of 3/4" copper type L(thin walled) copper pipe in my preheater, so I hope it rocks. 8O

[Russ]

Steam hoods, forced air and pre-heaters... its all about getting the most out of the fuel and time you spend in the sugar shack. Steam hoods help keep drafts off the surface of the sap, keeps the heat in, gives you distilled hot water supply (we use it to heat our cans of soup for lunchtime)and gets the steam (actually, condensed water vapor) out. Forced air would be my next choice, as it pushes the heat/flames along the whole length of your arch and greatly reduces the build-up of coals and ashes. The preheater utilizes the free heat in the steam hoods to take the chill off the sap; just make sure you have a drip pan to capture the condensing water with a drain to get it out as well... another hot water source. I remember hand-dipping cold sap from the storage tank into our flat pan system years ago, and how discouraging it was when the cold sap killed the boil. Same deal without the preheater, however you don't see the effect to the same extent in a flue pan. With the preheater, we have had a full boil in the flue pan from front to back and side to side. And yes, you still need to watch for foaming with a preheater.

[Parker]

Hey Russ- I was wondering how much sap you needed to fire up your old 5x16?? I was looking back at my recordes and am a little nervous about having enough sap to run the one I am getting,,,I am thinking mabey Ill keep the 3x10, stick it out in the tank room and use that when I dont have enough sap to run the 5x16,,???

[pegjam]

Hey Parker: What happened to the flashing blue light special??? :lol: :lol: :lol: Getting a few wedding night jitters?? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Pegjam

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Parker,

With all the sap you were hauling last year and adding more taps this year, you will have plenty of sap for the 5x16 even if you only boil for 3 hours at a time. Better to boil 3 hours on the 5x16 vs. 10 hours on the 3x10 for the same amount of sap! :D :D :D

[Parker]

Well folks,,that is what I am wondering,,will I have enough to boil for 3 hours or will I have 300 gallons sitting for 4 day waiting for another run to fire the rig???

[Al]

Well Parker I don't think anyone really knows the answer to that one. We proberly were all in that situation when we purchased our evaporators. I know for me it as a hobby guy that a 2x6 was to big for the amount of taps I would have. I would have to hold sap for to many days inbetween my boil. Now hopefully I have the right balance of taps,sap and correct size evaporator. :D I hope. I hope this helps some.
By the way how many gallons do you have to have to fire up that monster?
Take care.

[Russ]

Parker, I consulted with one of my borthers and we agreed that teh old 5x16 took approximately 150 gallons. However, we ran it deeper than most people to avoid any possibility of scorching. We also had a smaller system, but never had runs small enough to worry about only firing up only one or the other. Good luck; hope this helps.

[Parker]

Thanks for all the encouragment...I think I just need to get my butt in gear and hang some more tubing, and find 2 more vac. systems,,then I should be fine,,The bulk tank I got still works,, Mabey Ill hook up the compressors so I can hold sap for a day if I have to,,and by all means, If anyone is interested stop in, there is plenty to do between the sugar house and the woods,, or just check the place out ,,I still have to paint and thin the 31 acres and do a complete install,,,make some improvements on the existing systems ect..HEY BRANDON rent a car and come on up and check it out,,This sat were going to pick up the evap. in VT,,Should be unloading it sat. afternoon....many hands make light work

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Parker,

Sure sounds like fun and would like to help but I don't think I can get to Verona and Vt in the same day. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I am going to be traveling over 2,000 miles in two days so I may have to pass on this one. :D :D 8O

Even if you only have 300 to 400 gallons, I don't think it would be a problem firing up the evaporator for a couple of hours. Better than dumping the sap and cooking a lot longer on the 3x10. :D :D :D

You could always invest in a uv unit. :idea:

[gmcooper]

Hey guys on Wed. I talked with the folks at Leader on the preheater. After the sticker shock on that with only a 15% gain they suggested a Steamaway for more than we paid for the evaporator. Anyone had any luck with homemade preheaters and hoods?
Mark

[TroutBrookSH]

Brandon,

Good to meet you and some of the other Traders at the NY conference! You mentioned that you made a cheap preheater. Can you describe it here, and maybe email me some pics? Thanks!

Greg
gkeyes@ocdus.jnj.com

[backyardsugarer]

There are a couple or ways to make a really cheap pre heater. I have tried 2 methods. One is to get flexible copper tubing and twist it around your stack about 10 times. The only problem with this is each time you start the sap flow if the tubing is too hot you can scorch the sap so the first cup full will be black. Catch it and throw it out.

The other methd that I am using now I took from the half pint evap. made by leader. I got some stainless together and made a five gallon pan to piggy back on my 2x6. Between the heat from the stack and the steam the sap gets to be like bath water (not 180 deg. but not bad). I have a copper tube with a valve that zig zags over the sap pan and into the float box. I am able to keep a stead flow of warm sap going which does not kill hte boil and it only cost me about $30 and a couple of hours of welding.

Chris

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have pics of the preheater on my website and I will take a whole bunch of pics tommorrow of the preheater completely installed inside the hood. In my opinion, I have an extremely nice preheater and a good system and I only have around $ 100 in it and that is with the extreme high price of copper. If anyone wants me to email them the pics, just send me a private message and I will email them a bunch of pics tommorrow. I will also be posting the pics on my website tommorrow night or Sunday! :D :D :D

After looking at the pics, you can give me a call anytime and I will try to explain more over the phone! :D

[gmcooper]

Brandon,
Thanks for the great pics of your preheater and hood. Is the hood alum.?
What gauge is it ? From the pics of the preheater tubing I assume the cold sap enters from the elevated pipe and would exit from the ball valve. Just a question though what would keep the cold sap from taking the shortest and most direct route to the outlet. I have seen some of the dialog on maniflod vs. continous tube. Looks like you have a good set up there.
thanks
Mark

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Mark,

I will be taking a bunch more pics today and will try to post them on my website this evening of the preheater completed and fully installed. My hood is 26 gauge stainless and the frame is heavy duty welded aluminum. Then entire hood probably weighs 60 lbs. The pics you saw were before the preheater was installed, so wait until tonight or tommorrow whenever I get more pics posted and look at them.

The cold sap enters on the raised pipe and goes to the bottom. The end with the valve on it is about 3 inches lower than the other end. The only thing the valve is for is to drain the sap at the end of each boil since that end is lower, all the sap will run down to it. The sap goes out the other end of the preheater. The pipe is coming out the end of the top manifold, just below where the cold pipe is. Wait until you see the pics tonight and you will understand a lot better! :D

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I added a bunch of pics to my website of my evaporator since everything is installed and quite a few pics of my preheater and how it is setup. All of the pics I added today are under the preheater album on my website! :D :D

Please ask any questions you might have or send me a private message. I know very little, but will try to help in whatever way I can. :D

[gearpump]

Brandon;

Your setup looks great! I was wondering if you had a vent in the outlet side of your piping. If you don't you might get a vapor lock and not get any sap to the pan. On my setup the vent comes off the top most part of the preheater and constantly bubbles off pressure. The vent pipe is installed up in the steam vent which is about 4 feet higher then the feed tank to prevent any overflow of sap.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Marty,

I have one of the 1/4 copper valves that mounts onto the pipe. I am going to try it without it and if I need it, I can have it on in about 5 minutes. I get a lot of different feedback about the vent. Some say I need it and others say I don't :?: :?: :?: :?

[gmcooper]

Brandon,
Great set of photos. I think they answer any questions I left. The vent tube might come in handi only if you have more preheat capacity than sap useage.. Years ago with our old Vermont evaporator I tried several versions of preheating sap. We used the fin tube from baseboard heat (they were new, some fin damage so they were free)Worked great 25% of the time. Tried coppertubing thru the stack pipe, That worked 1% of the time. as far as steam hood goes I might have to check with WF Mason. He does some great work with stainless. Looks like your ready to go this season. We plan to tap about mid Feb. but will watch weather. still have 2-300 new taps to add to vacuum.
Thanks, Mark

[mapleman3]

Brandon, everything looks great! I take it you got the package I sent you with your fittings in it? hey whats with the TV in the hood... you know the one that is showing the movie of the little house down the road.. what? oh its a window :lol: :lol: it was funny seeing the road thru your hood... you did a nice job getting it all set up.. she'll boil like a blast furnace for sure!!!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jim,

Thanks for the kind words and I hope it boils like a blast furnace. Guess I will know soon. I did get the package I think as I seen one, but haven't had a chance to see what it is yet as I worked late.

By the way, I do have 2 sets of plans for building a preheater that mapleman sent to me and I will be glad to copy them and mail them to anyone who wants a set. Please send me your addess in a private message! :D