Two 2'x2' pans vs one 2'x4'

[NJG]

This was our first year makying syrup and we had a blast boiling with steam table pans. I know that we will quickly grow out of the 10 taps we put in this year and although it may not happen next year, I'm trying to come up with ideas now so I can jump on any deals I come across.

Our biggest limitation is that our maples are on land that is a two hour drive from our house. We are pretty much limited to boiling on weekends with the exception of a few extended weekends and a couple of retired guys that may or may not be able to go up during the week. Obviously we may have more sap than we can handle one weekend and next to nothing the following weekend. I'm guessing that we may never go more than 50 taps at best.

I'm thinking that a 2'x4' would be a good sized pan for us but was wondering if there are any disadvantages in having two pans, each 2'x2'? My thought is that if we go up and have a 5 gallon pail full of good sap at the base of every tree, we will need every bit of the 2'x4' pan. But, if we find partial pails or some pails of sour sap, we may not be able to run a single 2'x'4 pan and could simply use one of the 2'x2' pans.

My plan was to build a block arch, insulated with archboard and split firebrick, raise the rear of the arch, and put a metal frame on top of the block (not attached, just resting on top) which would allow me to use one or both of the pans. I could cover the empty space with sheet metal if I used just one of the pans.

Does this sound like it would work?

If I used one pan on this set up would I loose all my efficiency by putting sheet metal over the space where the "missing" pan would be? Can I do anything to help that?

In building the metal frame to hold the pans there would have to be a piece of steel spanning the width of the arch to hold the ends of each pan (middle of the arch). Would this steel simply burn out? Can I protect that with ceramic wool?

Sorry for such a long post but I really appreciate your opinions!

Nick

[PerryW]

I'm thinking that a 2'x4' would be a good sized pan for us but was wondering if there are any disadvantages in having two pans, each 2'x2'?


No disadvantages that I can think of. Two pans is nice because you can dipper the sap from the back pan into the front pan, then put the raw sap in the back pan. That way your front pan will get much closer to syrup and require less finishing on the stove. You could also lift a 2x2 pan more easily and set the who pan on another stove for finishing. A propane stove works better for batch finishing because when you hit syrup, you can just turn off the burners.



My plan was to build a block arch, insulated with archboard and split firebrick, raise the rear of the arch, and put a metal frame on top of the block (not attached, just resting on top) which would allow me to use one or both of the pans. I could cover the empty space with sheet metal if I used just one of the pans.

Does this sound like it would work?

Sounds like it would work, but as you mention, the efficiency would go down. You could also just fill the back pan with water since you are wasting the heat anyway. Then you will at least have water for washing filters & equip.

You will most likely end up finishing your batch on a stove or turkey fryer anyway, so you might want to just boil the whole 2x4 pan down to 1" and you will have 5 gallons of concentrated sap.



If I used one pan on this set up would I loose all my efficiency by putting sheet metal over the space where the "missing" pan would be? Can I do anything to help that?

You could try a adding damper on the stack, reducing the air intake, and using shorter wood. All these things would put more heat toward the front pan. You could also put the sheet metal (or water-filled pan) on the front and push the wood back so the front pan doesn't get as much heat (less wasted heat).



In building the metal frame to hold the pans there would have to be a piece of steel spanning the width of the arch to hold the ends of each pan (middle of the arch). Would this steel simply burn out? Can I protect that with ceramic wool?

If I understand you, I'm not sure you need the piece of metal across the middle of the arch. Just pulll the back pan and throw a piece of metal over the opening (or just put water in the back pan)

[Gary R]

I would go with the 2X4 pan and put a draw off valve on it. I would not add partitions since you only boil on the weekends. Each boil would be a batch. I gave my cousin a sheet of stainless to make a 2X4 pan. He cut it and made 2 2X2 pans. He regrets it. If you do not have at least another person helping, lifting one of those pans (2X2) with a few gallons in it is difficult. There is soot on the bottom and it gets everywhere. You also have to worry about burning the syrup on the pan if it gets too hot without liquid in it.

The sheetmetal would warp and be in the fire in no time. If you had 2 pans, put water in the pan and put it back on the arch.

It takes about 5 gallons for every inch in a 2X4. If you only had 5 gallons, dump it in, bring it to a boil and shut it down. You could either cover the pan with the sweet in it for the week or pour it off into a bucket with lid for next time.

Good luck and hope this helps.

[PARKER MAPLE]

i started this year my self and i had a 2x4 flat pan made. next year im having particians put in, so this will become my rear pan, and then i will have a 2x2 front pan with partician running the opposing way to the rear pan, this will become my syrup pan. what i found this year is with 4 8in propane burners under my 2x4 pan it take no time to boil down 35 gals, but the hard part is finishing it. very time consuming. hope this helps.

[skillet]

You will want the pans to fit together snug. Otherwise the sides will scortch. I would suggest 3 pans instead of 2. With a 2x2 pan you will have to start with a min of 180 gallons of sap. This would give you 1" (4.5gal)of finished (or real close to finished)syrup in your 2x2 pan. Any amout less than that you risk scorthing you pan. With 50 taps you may have to collect for 2 weeks before boiling. If you make 2 -1'x2',1-2x2' pans you will cut all your number is half.

I run 2-19x24",1-19x21",1-19x15", 1-19x10" finish pan. Run all pans until you run out of sap start combining pans and fill with water. Got about 18-20 gph evap. rate with all pans boiling. 8' is about max for length with a 19" wide fire box. May shorten ours to 2-6' rigs next year.

Skillet

[NJG]

Thanks for the info guys. It really helps!!

The metal bar going across the middle of the arch that I refered to was an idea I had to essentially provide support for each of the 2x2 pans. The piece would go between the pans, and the bottom of the pans would rest on it, keeping fire/smoke/and a little heat from getting up between the pans. Not sure if this would last long or just get twisted up from the heat.

The more I think about it I may be better off sticking with the 2x4. For the times I don't have to 200+ gallons to bring it all the way to syrup for a 2x4 pan, I can just bring it down as close as I dare without burning anything and like Gary mentioned I can save it or take it home and finish it on propane into a small batch.

I'm planning on making a filtering/finishing rig to draw off into as well so I want to make sure that I have it proportioned to the pan I end up with. Although I'm thinking of going with a block arch, I was really looking with interest at the thread a while ago showing the evap that I believe Gary was building!

Skillet, you are getting 18-20 gph? That sounds like it's really cranking!

[NJG]

Perry & Gary - I forgot to mention that water may not always be an option for me. We are almost a half mile off the two rut town road, no power and other than the water I collect from the roof for washing once the snow is off the roof, water is a limited item.

[Gary R]

NJG,

I fire up my rig even if I have 30-40 gal. of sap. boil for a couple hours and leave it in the pan. As long as you boil the sap, it will kill the bacteria and then it will hold for some time.

I need to update my "new guy's rig" thread. I added some things this year and I am in the process of changing some things again. This is just me as I always want to make things better.

Mine is an oil tank arch. It was free and I was beginning. It works well. Riley Sugarbush recently posted that if you could, make it out of angle iron and sheetmetal. I would have gone that route, but I didn't have the materials. It is good advice from him.

So, sit down and think about how much you want to spend and your fabricating abilities. Even if you stay with a block arch you will have fun. Which ever you do, try get out of the weather. Even a temporary tarp hut will do. The cold and wind will kill your boil.