new to the site

[Ridgeland Farm]

Hey guys, im new to the site and am enjoying all the info I am getting on here! I did my own syrup for the first time this year and had a blast! Ive spent a good amount of time with a maple producer right up the road and am now seriously considering going full force on the maple front! Ive spent a lot of time thinking about if I really want to do this and the answere became more clear the more I thought about it! So now I have a lot of planning to do and a lot of work to get ready for the next season! So I appologize ahead of time for all the questions im sure Ill have! So my first question is about Vaccum systems and lines. From what I read and have been told, if you really want to be able to make it as a producer you gotta have a vaccum system. It seems like it close to doubles your sap over a gravity fed system. So im trying to figure out what I am going to need for a vaccum system for a 3000 tap system. I see so much different stuff im not sure what I need. There are flood vaccum systems and belly releasers and vaccum pump with flood. Then there are just plain releasers and extractors. Im seing all this stuff in the leader evaporator catalog and im getting confused. What exactly do I need to get to vaccum my lines. And I know its probably pretty tuff to tell on prices but would anyone have a guess on what I might expect to pay for a 3000 tap vaccum set up. Best I can tell, new, im lookin around 6k. Again, I love this site and have found so much helpful info. Thanks guys,

Stefan

[Haynes Forest Products]

Welcome Sounds like your doing your homework. Now the fact that all this has to happen in the next year is a disadvantage. I say that because most of us have built our empires one stone at a time as we became more and more commited to the sport of Sugering.
What I would do if I had the 6k budgeted is call and get a bid on setting up just the vacuum lines from tap to tank. A good gravity setup makes the best vacuum set with a few exceptions Sap ladders and the type of tanks. Will you be near elec, roads and such.
If your woods will allow all mains to run together than a doubble Bernard releaser is $1500 and is a must. 3000 taps will need alot of storage tanks for collecting so that is the shop around type of thing. Vacuum pump home built $1000 if you have the time and ability. I think 6K is doable if you do the woods yourself.

[ennismaple]

Welcome to our addiction!!!

For 3,000 taps you'll need a pump with at least 30 CFM (at 100 taps per CFM) - ideally I'd oversize the pump to a 50CFM. If you can set up the pump in a heated room I'd recommend a Sihi liquid ring pump. It creates higher vacuum than flood oil pumps = more sap = $$$.

I normally budget $5 per tap for laterals which breaks down to be 15 feet of 5/16 tubing per tap, a spile, a tee and a saddle manifold. Your mainline costs will depend on how your bush is set up. I'd plan to make it a wet-dry system right off the bat. For an evaporator you'll need something that can process 3000 gallons in a day - which means you'll want to consider an RO. We paid about $13k for our 600 GPH RO 7 years ago but I don't know what they're worth now. That RO will reduce your boiling time by more than half. Instead of evaporating almost 3,000 gallons of water you'll concentrate it to 1,000 gallons (without recirculation) which can be proceseed in 5 hours with a 200 GPH evaporator.

Start small but with plans to expand. Theron's the only fool around here that I know of who went big from the get-go!!!

[PerryW]

I did my own syrup for the first time this year and had a blast!

So im trying to figure out what I am going to need for a vaccum system for a 3000 tap system.

Wow, sounds like you are jumping in with both feet. Sounds like it's a no-brainer that you have to go vacuum if you have a bush bigger than a few hundred taps. Good luck, but don't give all your profit to the bank. Maybe find a rich widow who likes men who smell of maple.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Maple Newbe Remember if your near a big producer that buys sap you can always plan big in the bush and sell the sap you cant use and in a bad year your evap will be just fine. Selling of 1000 extra gallons a day is a nice little paycheck when your tanks are flowing and the sugar is up around 3%. Its the chicken or the egg. Big evap and little sap or medium size evap and extra sap you can sell and then upgrade to a ro down the road.

[Ridgeland Farm]

All I know is I have worked for other people more than I ever wanted only to help them meet thier dreams. Im done with that! Its my turn now! If all goes well I will have around a 70k budget which does not count for the sap house. Power is not a problem but distance is. I have 3 main orchards on 86 acres. Unfortunately it slopes downward away from the collection site so i will need to vaccum uphill. It will be very hard to access the bottom of the property with a tractor and there is no power down there. My 3000 tap count is a high count. My rough count on the property gave me about 2300 taps. So I figured if I went with a 3000 tap vaccum I would be safe. I am planing on a wet/dry setup atleast through the heart of the system. I have much more property to tap but anything else I tap will be gravity feed for this coming year. With one vaccum system an evap and an RO that will eat up a good chunk of my budget! I am planing on hopefully finding a used RO that will do 250-400gph. My plans are for a 3x8 evap depending on price and quality I would go bigger. If I stuck with the 3x8 I would also try to get a steamaway to up my gph. I am also not sure really how to plan for the amount of tubing I will need. In my budget I built out using a 50k limit I had 60k feet of tubing and 30k feet of mainline. But im not really sure on that. I could be way overestimating or way underestimating. Also wondring how many taps you guys reccomend to put on one branch line. Ive heard numbers 10 to 50. I guess I would lean to the lesser amount and just have more branch line than than cram a bunch of taps on one 5/16 line. Thanks again for everyones input. I really appreciate it

Stefan

[ennismaple]

Stephan - On vacuum you want to ideally keep your laterals to 7 taps, 10 max. That allows for better vacuum transfer to the taphole. If you work out the costs installing more mainline is actually cheaper than using 5/16 laterals.

[maplecrest]

my new woods this year start to finish with 1665 taps including vac, releaser, new tank wet dry system a pallet of tubing and stainless steel fitting in main line was 28000

[Haynes Forest Products]

I also know when a supplier sees that he can sell the whole shabang at one sitting things start to change as far as price I would come up with a close idea of all items needed and shop the heck out of it to all suppliers. I think making 5% on alot of equipment is better than 25% on very little.

[Clan Delaney]

Stefan, I'm moving your thread over to the Vaccum Systems and Accessories forum, to get more exposure for your vac related questions.

Welcome to the site. In a year you'll have to change that screen name though, with all the knowledge you're gonna soak up here!

[Brian Ryther]

In the past two years I have gone from 150 taps to 1900. I have averaged $12 per tap. Vac, wet, dry, releasers etc... Good advice has been strive for five and keep it under 10 taps per lateral line.