Collection/Transfer Improvements

[Amber Gold]

I want to improve my sap collection and storage for next year. Everything gets trucked the SH via a 210 gallon truck tank and a 37gpm 2-stroke pump. Things worked well for a first year, but could definitely be improved.

This year I would pump everything into the truck tank via the top access hatch and run it through a sap filter. It worked great except I used a bungie cord to keep the hose in the tank, which didn’t always hold and the hose would drape over the truck which isn’t great for the paint. I thought about hooking the pump into the tank drain, but I wouldn’t be able to filter it. Looking for a better method of getting sap into the tank. Do I need to filter the sap prior to putting it in the tank? At the beginning of the year it definitely needed to be filtered because I was getting a lot of crud out of the new tubing, not so much later in the year.

Second process I want to improve is moving sap around in the SH. This year I have a 300 gallon feed tank and some 150 gallon tanks for additional storage. I piped a line up to the feed tank which worked great except for when I’d fill the tank full and the end of the pipe was under sap it would back siphon. A check valve will fix that. This year I’ll have a 600 gallon bulk tank and the 300 gallon feed tank. I’m thinking if I don’t filter prior to the truck tank I’d filter it when it enters the bulk tank. Not sure if I should use a pop on sap filter or use a house filter, or both. I was thinking I’d pump everything to the bulk tank first and then pump it up to the feed tank. To pump from the bulk tank to the feed tank I was thinking of connecting to the drain on the tank and using some kind of circulating pump, say for a forced hot water system, not sure what the flow rate is and was also concerned about freezing. Thought about continuously circulating everything between the two tanks to keep it moving. I also had a problem with the feed line valve freezing and want to get that resolved. My pipe wouldn’t freeze, but I’d get liquid trapped in the ball valve that would freeze and would be a pain to thaw out…considering switching to a gate valve and/or moving the valve into the SH. All the tanks and piping are outside.

Basically I’m looking for the best/efficient way to get sap into the truck tank, get it into my storage tank, up to the feed tank, and filtered somewhere along the way. Also intend to use the feed tank for additional storage if needed so I don’t want sap freezing in my lines. Also considering putting UV in in case I can’t boil for a few days. There were times this year where sap sat for a few days waiting for me to boil it because I was falling behind.

Thoughts and opinions??

Thanks

[mountainvan]

This is what I do... two 1 inch pumps from the sugarbush tanks to the truck, 210 gal tank, 2" pump from truck tank to 550gals tank feeding ro. Sap is filtered with home made filter using three milk filters. I can bring in 800 gals in 30 minutes. The best pump is the 2", it can empty the truck tank in 1 minute!

[Sugarmaker]

A.G.,
Lots of options in your set up.
On the truck tank consider a fitting going into the tank as high as you can get. you can buy the bulk head type fittings at Tractor supply. I drilled a 2 inch hole in my brand new 325 gallon tank put in a fitting with a 1.5 inch barb with a hose and quick disconect fitting to the pump.

On the pipe going into the storage tank just attach high near the rim so it is not down in the tank it wont siphon back then.

Chris

[hard maple]

Alls you have to do is remove the vent on the cover of your pickup tank
tap the hole to 1" npt
then thread in a 45 degree elbow
then put a camlock fitting onto 45 debree elbow
this way the cover always stays on the tank
and your pump hose is easily removed

[Amber Gold]

HM, I always wondered what that was on the top of the cover. That sounds like the best solution for filling the truck tank. I use camlock's now to drain the tank and fill my feed tank and think they're great. My wife does most of the collecting while I'm at work and they're simple and easy to use.

Chris, The pipe feeding the feed tank drops in about a inch. Sometimes I have enough sap to fill it all the way and I try to get every drop in.

MV, what are milk filters?

[mountainvan]

I get mine at tsc. In the dairy aisle there in a orange and white box. I get the long thin ones, 1 1/2"x 20" maybe. I slide a hose clamp over them, slide that over the fitting and tighten. When the sap is nasty I slide one inside the other.

[Amber Gold]

Still not sure of the best way to get sap from the bulk tank to the feed tank and dealing with freezing weather. Type of pump to use?

Also was thinking it would be a good idea to have a float switch on the feed tank so it'll draw from the bulk tank if it gets low. Ideas??

[Russ]

We use a submersible sump pump with PVC piping from the ground vat to the head tank. The sump pump is controlled by a float switch in the head tank (a 300 gallon plastic tote on a platform). We have never had a problem with the pump or PVC freezing up. You can find float switches at Graingers or other online supply places. You plug the float switch plug into your outlet, and your pump into the backside of the float switch plug. I plugged a 3-way outlet into the back of the float switch plug and added an extension cord with a flasher unit and bright red light. We put the light where it can be seen just about anywhere in the sugar shack, so we always know when the pump is pumping and when it shuts off. Good luck!

[Snow Hill Farm]

I have the exact same set up as Russ and it works great. My sump pump is connected with quick connect couplers so I can take apart and drain and store when it's really cold. I keep an extra pump on hand just in case one fails and they are around $45 from Northern tool. Here is a link for the pump http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_792_792 and one for the float switch http://www.flintandwallingpumps.com/zoellerfloatswitches.htm

[Amber Gold]

Thanks guys. That looks like a nice setup.

Is the sump pump able to drain the tank completely?

If the sump pump is left submerged in the bulk tank I can't imagine it would freeze. I did have my feed line ball valve freeze overnight this year and it was very difficult to thaw out.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Is that sump pump from Northern oil filled as I didn't see anything about it on their website??

[Snow Hill Farm]

Not sure if it is oil filled but I would guess no because it will freeze up if left exposed to the cold. It won't freeze as long as it's submerged. It will drain my tank to within a half inch and it's a curved bottom milk tank.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I have used a cheap 110 volt sump pump that sits in the tank and freezes into the last 1/2" and have never had a problem with it. Before I start I dump it into a full tank of sap and its fine. I have used oil filled pumps before and its alot of money for very little return. The oil is more for cooling than stopping water from entering the pump and contaminating the sap.

[Z/MAN]

I had an oil filled pump in my watergarden/fish pond. Two years ago it leaked oil into the water and killed all my fish.:( It leaked very slowly and it took me a while to realize why my fish were dying. It is rare but they can leak and you would never notice it in sap unless it was leaking very bad. Just a little info from experiance.
Paul

[Haynes Forest Products]

SHF I would venture a guess that your pump has a small amount of water in it. I say that because it should not be effected but the cold. They really dont have heavy oil in them that will get thick with the cold. The oil is like trans fluid and cold wont stop them. What happens with the oil filled is as they get hot they can push a little air out and then when they cool because they have very little air in them they create vacuum that will suck in water. In the air only pumps there is alot more air so it doesnt create as much vacuum so they dont leak as easy.

[Brent]

Josh
You mentioned wanting UV

Economical UV and fast transfer pumps don't go together.
The sap needs a realatively long exposure to the UV to sterilize the microbes. You either need one hell of an expensive UV with lots and lots of watts, or you pump to a holding tank real fast then use a regulated pump to run through the UV and into a final holding tank. Look at the UV units and their flow rates and very roughly cut it in half to do the job on sap. I recently checked the Sapsaver web site and thier hi flow UV was over $3000.

You can get a pretty good one in the $ 600 - 700 range but you've got to control the flow rate to get the kill

[Amber Gold]

Brent, I am thinking of UV, but not as I'm pumping it into my tank. I have a 600 gal bulk tank that I'd pump into and use as a holding tank. If I wasn't going to boil it immediately I would use a circulating pump to circulate the sap through the UV light for x number of hours. I saw leader sells some in the $3-500 range.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I think the problem with REcirculating the sap you contaminate it as soon as it mixes with the untreated sap. This year I was always washing tanks I used to be able to go all day adding sap to the bulk tanks but this year was dirty. I washed every time we put new sap in the bulk tanks. Having that scum and UV treated sap circulating I dont think you will improve the quality

[Brent]

I've been teased by this UV idea for a few years now. We get a bunch of days when 400 - 500 taps don't make enough to light the fire. Somewhere I read about putting a UV flood light in the storage tank.

No question re-circulating is less efficient than a single pass into a sterile tank. But like weeding the garden, no microbes is impossible, less is better,
that is unless you want to make darker syrup.

Funny thing this year we never made and supler light, and most of the people coming up the driveway want medium or amber ... so why fuss with killing the critters that make the syrup darker. It's a head scratcher.