Amount of Sap per Tap Question

[Steve C]

Hi Everyone, I'm brand new to this site, just found it a couple weeks ago. I don't currently have a production up and running at the moment but plan to build one this summer north of Toronto.

During my research and trying to find how large I can go and such I found some conflicting numbers in terms how much sap per tap can be produced on average. In the Maple Syrup Producers Manual in Ch.4 it states you can get about 10 gallons of sap in one season per tap.

But while researching the size of evaporator I need, I found on the atkinsonmaple.com website that it says you will get on average 1 gallon per tap per day. Obviously this is a huge difference from the 10 gallons overall.

Can someone please shine some light on this dilemma? Thanks.

[Clan Delaney]

Steve-

Welcome to the site. Get ready for far more advice that you could have asked for. :lol:

This year I collected 554 gallons from 65 taps over just 20 days. So that's 8.5 gallons per tap and .425 gallons per tap per day. Last year I collected 259 gallons from 18 taps in 24 days for 14.38 gallons per tap or .59 gallons per tap per day. This year has been not so good. But if you want to talk averages - 10 gallons per tap per season is in the ballpark. Use it as a benchmark, then plan for more!

[halfast tapper]

They are both pretty accurate. The thing you have to remember is that not every tap produces the same amount, and it won't run everyday. The 10 gallon per tap rule is only on gravity system with no vaccum, and is only an average for figuring what a bush will run in a season. The gallon per tap per day rule is for figuring what size tank you will need for the amount of taps. I use the 2 gallon per tap rule for sizing tank. Hope this helps.

[Steve C]

Thanks for the advice, still so much to learn.

We were hoping to go for 1500 taps and put it all on vacuum but was curious about something. This might be better to put in the actual vacuum thread but was wondering if it is possible to harm the trees when using a vacuum by taking too much sap from it.

If you tap a tree for the maximum amount of taps it can have depending on its size, wouldn't a vacuum be similar to overtapping a tree?

Thanks again.

[sapman]

All the research done at the U. of Vermont shows no apparent damage to the tree. I asked Tim Wilmot, one of the researchers, personally about high vacuum, and he said the same thing, not harmful.

Also based on their findings, I believe, is that vacuum affects a significant area of the tree, so overtapping would definitely not be good. I believe UVM only puts one tap/tree. So I have done this in my bush, for the most part. I have a very few trees over 24-28" that I did put two taps on.

Tim

[Steve C]

Thanks, I took your advice and went to the UVM website and looked through a few of their publications. I noticed that they always use one tap per tree like you said, but it seems this is more for research purposes to keep everything even because they even put one tap per tree when using gravity systems.

I did find this also in one of their publications:

"Estimates of the amount of a tree's reserves removed from sugaring range from less than 1% to upwards of 10%. Sugarmakers should be reassured however that no studies have documented maple dieback or decline resulting from the use of vacuum for sap collection."

So from my understanding, if a tree can take 2 or 3 taps on a gravity system than putting those on a vacuum would be ok? Because just one tap per tree on vacuum sounds like you won't get a lot of sap over the season.

Can someone help make this all make sense? I was hoping to get at least 2 - 3 taps on most of our trees because its mostly and old growth forest.

[Brent]

I support the comments above that both ranges of sap are correct.

Using buckets you would see several days in the season when the freeze/thaw cycle was not good and you would only get a cup or two of sap.
Other days, we would go to the woods and the buckets would be overflowing by noon and overflowing again in the afternoor, and be half full collecting at midnight.

So there are big swings from day to day, which is why you need to plan on 2 to 3 gallons of storage per day.

[ennismaple]

So from my understanding, if a tree can take 2 or 3 taps on a gravity system than putting those on a vacuum would be ok? Because just one tap per tree on vacuum sounds like you won't get a lot of sap over the season.

The one thing you're fogetting is the wound caused by tapping the tree. My personal opinion is the wound you create when you tap causes more stress on the tree than the amount of sap we remove from it. Every taphole creates a stain column which does not produce sap. Over time, excessive tapping will create so many stain columns that you can't find good wood to tap in.

[halfast tapper]

The other thing is that vaccum will double your output. So figure 20 gallons per tap for an average season.

[Steve C]

The one thing you're fogetting is the wound caused by tapping the tree. My personal opinion is the wound you create when you tap causes more stress on the tree than the amount of sap we remove from it. Every taphole creates a stain column which does not produce sap. Over time, excessive tapping will create so many stain columns that you can't find good wood to tap in.

I read about that in UVM's studies as well. I didn't see anything about how long it takes for the tree to "heal" itself but I can only assume that it would take quite awhile. I'm hoping that once we go out there and plot out the trees there will be enough that we can switch between trees every year.

[PerryW]

Okay, here's my idea!

Suppose you have 100 maple trees. Instead of putting 1 tap in each tree; just take one tree and put all 100 taps in it and hook up the mother of all vacuum pumps and take every last molecule of sugar out of the entire tree and root system. Sure you'd kill the tree; but next year you'd tap tree #2 with 100 taps and do the same thing. Just cut the dead tree down for next year's sugaring wood.

By the time you got around to tree #100, you'd have a new batch of trees. Just don't forget to plant a new tree for every one you kill.

[Jerome]

Perry
you need some sleep ;)

[KenWP]

If you go by my trees you would plan on at best a gallon a day average and still have space left at the end of the day. I have a couple of trees that produce mega amounts of sap and others that produce a cup and they are fair size trees.

[lew]

I believe you said that you were going to try and tap 1500 taps on vacuum. We just added vacuum to a 1,400 tap woods this year. My total volume of sap hauled from that woods was 38,600 gallons or about 27.5 gallons per tap. Our largest 24 hour run was about 3 gallons per tap. My storage tank a that woods is a 3,500 gallon tanker. we had to get a load (1,500 gallon) out of that tank in the middle of the night so it wouldn't run over. My non-vacuum woods ran 2 gallons per tap, a flood run in my part of the world. I think if you sized your tank for 2 gallons per tap, you would be alright except during those flood runs which don't occur that often.

[Steve C]

Ya tank size was another concern I had in terms of how much sap per tap there would be. Two gallons per tap seems like the general consensus, was told to even go a little larger for times when something might break down and you need a day or so to repair it.

[sapman]

I put a 1600 gal. tank in my woods which overflowed twice on me. I kept increasing taps during the season, but I'd guess the tapcount at each overflow was around 600 taps, and 950 taps, respectively. I could have prevented both times if I'd kept a closer eye on things, and will next year. But I'm also planning on adding at least another 500, so my tank is too small.

I still think I recall seeing the research that suggests that vacuum "pulls" from a significant area, so two taps on a tree may actually be competing with each other. I'd tap conservatively and "settle" for the 20+gal./tap that a good vacuum system should give you.

Tim