clean membrane

[Maple/Cherry]

How do you clean your membrane at the start of the season when you take your membrane out of the storage solution. Is soft water the only method? Other ways?

[yarg]

soft water rinse only

[Maple/Cherry]

How do you make enough soft water at the sugar house?

[802maple]

I usually save the sap that most people let run on the ground at first and use that. After rinsing with about 100 gallons of it, I concentrate 200 to 300 gallons and use the permeate to flush it out and then I start concentrating for real.

[michiganfarmer]

Is it neccessary to clean it at the begining of the season?

[Russell Lampron]

Yes it is neccessary to rinse your membrane at the start of the season. You don't have to wash it with soap just run water through it. I fill my bulk tank with well water after I rinse it out and make a tank of permeate to rinse mine with.

[markcasper]

I have a question regarding washing the membrane next spring.

Russell, first of all, Am I understanding that you concentrate well water to make permeate? My book says that is a no-no bigtime and will void the warranty.

I have about 400 gallons of permeate sitting in a tank since spring. It is basically clear except for some dirt and a few leaves that have snuck in. I am wondering if this would be alright to use for a rinse. If so, I will have to figure out a way to store it over winter without it turning to a mass of ice.

What are any and all options?

[802maple]

What you have should be fine as long as you filter it and you are right, well water is a no-no. Like I said up above, I usually take some of my first sap that I would run on the ground anyways. I run it thru on concentrate and save the little amount of permeate that I would have from that and rinse with it. I do this right before I am going to start my R.Oing for real

[Russell Lampron]

Mark,

I concentrate the well water at a pressure only slightly higher than the feed pump pressure and at a flow rate that is really high. They tell you not to concentrate with water because of the chlorine in public water supply systems. RO machines were invented to purify water. As long as you know that there is no chlorine in it it won't hurt your membrane.

Unless you keep it from freezing and get the crud out of it the tank of water you saved should be drained. It will be a big chunk of ice come February.

[ennismaple]

We do the same thing as 802maple. If you don't rinse it the SMBS preservative will contaminate your syrup.

[markcasper]

What about spring water out of a hill? We have several springs amongst the hills around here.

[Daren]

What about minerals in the well water or spring water. I know my well has some degree of hardness to it. It does not stain like high levels of iron, but it does leave a very nice white scale on heating elements in my home humidifier...?

[802maple]

True that most membranes are made for water, but the mark1 that comes in most machines today does not like it as it is made for sap. It only takes about 200 gallons of sap to do this the way I do it and as I said it is sap that I would most likely run on the ground anyway, so there is no loss.

[Russell Lampron]

Mark the spring water should be fine as long as it doesn't have a lot of iron in it. Chlorine is the killer, which is in public water systems, stay away from that.

Daren the sap from the maple trees has the same minerals in it. It won't hurt your membrane. Your pre filter will filter out any particles that are larger than 5 microns. The white scale you see in your humidifier probably looks a lot like the white scale that you see in your evaporator pans when they are drained and dry. I don't use a lot of water. Just enough to give the membrane and the rest of the RO a good rinse.

[sapman]

I'm kind of confused. The instructions with my RO say to collect a LOT of clean water, and rinse/wash/rinse/wash, then rinse twice more. I guess that's overkill?

Tim

[Russell Lampron]

My manual says to concentrate with sap for 15 minutes and discard the concentrate and permeate. I don't like the idea of dumping 15 minutes worth of the sweet stuff.

[802maple]

I really don't want to cause a stir over this, but as a former service tech on R.O.'s I have seen the result of some membranes being flushed with well water and it has not been good at times. I am sure that some get away using well water as not all wells are as high in minerals. I do realize that it is hard dumping sap on the ground, but is the sap that I most often let run on the ground while tapping anyway.
There is a reason why they warn you not to use well water as it is much like they tell you to never look down a loaded gun, because someone did it and the result wasn't good

[sapman]

802, I have the highest respect for your opinion! In a way, it sounds too good to be true! Wasting a few hundred gallons of sap is easier than all the rinse/wash cycles I've been told to do. So it really isn't necessary to do any washes to clean out the preservative? Just rinse as you've outlined? I like the sound of that!

Thanks,
Tim

[802maple]

All I do and have ever done is push 200 -300 gallons thru save the permeate and push it thru on the rinse cycle and I am done, most likely you wouldn't even have to do that much. I run the first 20 or thirty gallons of permeate on the ground so as to discard most of preservative on the membrane before I start saving for the final rinse.

[Jim Brown]

802; that was the way we were instructed to start in the spring.Start the RO as though you were going to concentrate and send the concentrate down the drain for the first 15-20 minutes and shead a little tear as the first run sap is going down the drain :( Then set the valves and push to the concentrate tank as normal. Works for us and we have had no problems


Jim

[Brent]

Tim
you sure you're not reading the end of season washing. Multiple wash/rinse cycles are called for at the end of the season. Simple flushing to clear out the SMBS as noted above when you start the next season.

[sapman]

I'd have to check my manual again for sure, but I'm pretty sure that's the way Airablo says to do it. And everyone I've talked to who uses those machines.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this!

Thanks,
Tim