Offical Sugar House Start-up

[firetech]

I thought that this should be a different thread than the Michigan Laws. I've contacted the local Ag Inspector and have my first meeting this week. We are going to build a licensed sugar house, so we are now in plan review. Sugar house do not require formal review ($75), but a voluntary one is recommended ($0) at this time. I'll keep you posted as to how this is working.

[Old Farmer]

I will be watching this thread. I am curious about Michigan laws in case I ever start selling syrup. Currently we use what we make and give a little away. If I come across an accessible sugar bush near me I just might expand. Keep us posted.

[Tweegs]

Do keep us posted.

My rooster is having some problems so I have to build another coop. Plan to start work on the sugar house right after that.

The AG rep for us is a gal named Tracy?

[michigansugarman]

We are interested in what you find out too. We currently make syrup for our own use and to give away as gifts. When we retire in a few years we would like to expand our operation to sell some syrup at farmer's markets and farm stands.

[firetech]

Tweegs Tracy is my rep too, but she's out on maturnity leave so I'm talking with Tom from Clinton/Gratiot area.

[firetech]

Met with the inspector yesterday. He looked over my build design draft and said it was ok. Made notes of ,a sealed concrete floor, coved corners of the wall floor joints (so moisture can get in the wall), hand wash sink(wife wants foot controled valves), 3 tub sink,bleach test kits,we are going with hoods on the pans for next year so that eliminates alot of other hassels with ventilation, food grade hoses, limited amount of sap stored near the evaportaor, heres a biggie lot codeing and records for three years of all syrup produced, air drying racks for all washed dishes and stuff like that. There will be more stuff as we go along. Tommorrow my brother will look over the drawings and get the underground plumbing on the print I'll get the electrical done. My buddies firm will get the final drawings on CAD for the next review procsess ( that is volountary and free) with good cuts of the walls, floor, and ceilings. This is a bit extreme but I don't want 1 "but" after the concrete is poured. I'm going to do it right the first time.

[Tweegs]

Good info, thanks for the update.

Couple of questions:

Coved corners on the wall/floor joints...assume that is on the interior joint?

Limited amount of sap stored near the evap...is there a reg for how far the feed tank must be from the evap?

Lot coding...For each time you fire, or does 1 lot code suffice for the entire year?

Underground plumbing...Drains in particular...Assume you need a floor drain and obviously a waste water drain from the sink. Are these going to a drain field or will/can they just carry off a way from the house and dump above ground? (I'm all clay here, an engineered field would be a bummer :lol: )

[firetech]

The coved corner is on the interior, I'm thinking of a concrete block up for 8" and a solid cookie on top of that then J channel and steel siding on the wall for my hard cleanable surface. The feed tank thing was they didn't want large quanities of sap getting warm before cooking. Lot codes, he suggested on daily runs or by pail/barrel to limit the amount of recall of product if there were ever to be one (never has been a recall on syrup). The drains are going to a sepeate septic system from the house, we are on sand more sand and more sand. The producer down the road has his sinks and floor drains going out and to daylite. we are going to put in a stool also.

[Tweegs]

Makes sense. With a minor tweek my plan is still viable then, good to know.

Good thinking on the stool. I was going to put a privy out back, complete with a quarter moon on the door, but Mama nixed the idea right off, said it would detract from the décor. Got kinda snippy about it too. I mean sheesh, I was only thinking of her, the nearest tree works just fine for me.

Can’t plumb water up there…too far from the house, would have to cross the driveway and too good a chance it would freeze. Same with the electric.
Sure is hard thawing those electrons when they freeze up.

Speaking of electrons…finally got around to digging up that feed to the barn. The ground was solid last time I tried, been too busy since. The repair I made last summer was fine. There is a break between that point and the house breaker. 240 at the breaker, 120 in the yard, nothing from neutral to the dead leg. Changed the breaker for S&G’s, no dice. A continuity check shows the line open. Was hoping that the trencher gave enough of a tug on the line to break it a couple of feet back, doesn’t appear that way. Dug back about 5 feet from the repair toward the house and didn’t find anything out of the norm.
Guess I keep digging until I find the break or I hit the garage, at which point I string a new line. This is turning out to be a bigger PITA than I already knew it was going to be.

[firetech]

Rent/borrow/hire an under ground locator. It will save you lots of headaches and not mess up the yard so much.

[firetech]

Up date we opted not to do the plan review just too many questions and not wanting to commit on a product that can be replaced by somthing more cost competitve. But the foot print is set a 24x32 with a 14x32 lean too for the kitchen and utlity room and building orentation is done. Site work is complete and grade has been established. Pole layout is this weekend, holes dug and poles planted on the 30th, Barn raising on the 6th of June. We will get pictures soon.

[kirkhedding]

MDA inspector coming out on the 10th of June. Somewhat looking forward to this and somewhat not. I've only been making syrup now for 3 yrs and selling it for 1yr. The inspector mentioned all the sinks like firetech mentioned. I said to the inspector that was more washing sinks then I have things to be washed. She said we can talk about that when she come's out. I hope I made the right decison by getting licensed vs. just selling it and hope not to get caught.
Kirk

[Sugarmaker]

You guys are doing all the right things with the inspectors!

If the regulations get to strict then syrup will go undergound!:)

We welcome the inspector to come in to our sugar house. We do not have the three sinks but do understand the concept.

One of the items that you have not mentioned is the covering of all bulbs to be inside shatter proof protective device also.

Regards,
Chris

[firetech]

Update time. Post are planted trusses are set north 1/2 of the purlins are on 3 coares on the south side are up also. Ag Inspector is coming Tues afternoon for a visit. We'll discuss sink and drain placement,wall finish,floor finishes,ceilings and just get to know each other so that a phone call will easy any questions that arise and she will know here I'm coming from and likewise with her. And she lives in my community so a stop in on her way home is not a hard thing to do.

[kirkhedding]

Just had my meeting with the MDA inspector. All and all, everything went great. Everything I had already done or had in mind of doing this summer was what she wanted done. So, it's nice to be on the same page. Boy, I am glad that's out of the way. No more worries.
Kirk

[firetech]

I met with mine Ag inspector yesterday too. She just wanted one more handwashing sink in the evaporator room. All in all a very good meeting we are going to bust butt to get the evaporator room done before we start cooking sorghum syrup in Sept. We are going for all the liscences before next spring. She has never seen a sorghum operation so she will be coming out this fall and watch the process, little does she know she going to be skimming too. Got the rest of the south perlins on the barn yesterday and a coupl rounds of girts up.

[KenWP]

What pray tell is sorguhm syrup. I have this feeling its like molassas. I think I seen sorgahm once its got a round tuft of seeds at the top does it not.

[kirkhedding]

Well, I poured the floor the other day. Now things will stay a little cleaner in there.
Now I just have to build a door, run a water line and get things back to normal.
Kirk

[firetech]

We have had a finacial slow down but that has now been over come. The roof steel is on, the windows and doors are installed. Inside grade is close just some fine tuning, the underground plumbing layout is done just need to get it going after the grade is set. Concrete is scheduled for Oct 1st, with lots to do. We are going with in floor heat for the building, this will cost us time and money but in the long run I hope it is worth it. Priced feeder wire today ouch!! $680 for 360 ft of URD 2/0 al. Got to go I'll post again soon . Have lots of pictures just need to get them posted.

[firetech]

Well be thankful we don't get all the Goverment we pay for!!!!!!!!!!!! Went to get my permits that are required to build a new barn ( the leaves are off now) we can't hide it anymore. Went to get an ag use permit and the county zoning people and the state ag dept were not aware of the new Maple syrup producers laws that were pasted last Dec, so we had to do some educating. So it went like this 50$ for ag zoning vareance,74$ for soil erosion permit and 318$ for a septic system permit. We have a toliet in the sugar house. But beware guys they are going to come down on surface water discharge soon. So on with the construction up date concrete arrives at 9:30 am we are pouring the north 1/2 fri and the south 1/2 Mon. all sanitary lines are in all under ground electric is in and the pex tubing is in as we go for the in-floor heat system. I go and pick up the siding steel tommorow after the cement is in place,while the other guys finish it.

[KenWP]

We all know that the more luxury we put in the suger house the better as we never know when we are going to be sleeping in there full time. I lived for many years in a part of the country where we were not even allowed to put in a sepric feild. Was a two part tank instead and then it pumped out the second side when it got full onto the top of the ground about 200 feet behind the house. Never made any sense to me but they said it was better for the ground water.

[firetech]

Put the last of the trim on yesterday, need 1/2 more tube of caulk and the outside is done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got the scaffleing last nite and the wood stove for some heat. We are about 1/2 done insulating and going to have the roof deck done by Sun pm along with some deer hunting thrown in for the weekend. Snow showers for tomorow and Fri. A BLESSED THANKSGIVING TO ALL.

[firetech]

Man I'm whipped, we just finished getting the water and electrical lines in tonite. My son is coming over to back fill tomorrow. Its going to be great to roll up the exention cords. Still putting up insulation only 35 more sheets to go. then we can have some real heat and warmth. I'm taking a break tomorrow and go hunting before this big strom front comes in. The deer sure are moving now that its colder. Just love to hunt with snow on the ground.

[firetech]

Well the Tashama Hall is as far as she goes for this season of construction. We assembled the sap pan hood today and the syrup pan hood needs the end panel put on. The evaporator is 75% bricked. The feed tank needs to go up and a little plumbing there but we hope to tap trees Tuesday. We need to get this season started. Oh the Ag inspector comes tomorrow afternoon. So with my furlough day I'm cleaning and mopping. We have a working toilet and a full electical panel of breakers. And just last year it all ran on 150 foot of cord and a 20 amp circuit. heavy sap flows for all.

[Tweegs]

Congrats!

May the sap be with you! :lol:

[maplemaple2020]

what i do is make the syrup and go to famers market and sell it there i do even have a liscence to sell it but my shack is perfectly fine and clean as can be but i have no open houses unless its little and dont sell it in the shack or around the shack:cool:

[firetech]

Well we are finally making steam. Got the licsensing thing finished on Monday all went well. Went to put the arch together and found 10 holes and 2 inches of seam had failed. Soldered till midnite Fri. Put the pan on the arch Sat am found 2 more streamers. Solder them up . Water in for the test 6 more wet spots. Ugh!!!! Called Sugar Bush Supply they had a new 30x5 flue pan on the unit in the showroom that they sold me. 3 hours of arch modifications and a santizing boil was done. Cooled the unit down and put put in the sap and fired up again. Man it just seemed to scream with a boil. New flue pan,hoods,and 4 more ft of stack. What a differnce. Made 4gals of lite syrup last nite and or seanson is finally off and running. We will set 300 more taps this weekend.

[twofer]

Do you think that those of you who have gone through the process could write up a brief rundown of the process? And things that were necessary in order to get approved and licensed?

I think it would be good to have in the Michigan forum for those who are interested in getting licensed, or those who may be interested in the future.

[firetech]

twofer I can give you some basics but each Inspensector has things they look for. For my building it is a new pole barn from the start. We have a concrete floor. Hard cleanable surfaces eveywhere (finished walls with steel barn siding) and formica counter tops. A seal water proof barrier at the wall/floor joint. A 3 tub sink and a hand wash sink. Pressurized potable water system (State lab tested) and I was required to have hot water also(a water heater was installed) Our light fixtures have cover (2 bulb wrap around flourecents). Soap and disposable towels,bleach test kits strips and rodents control (sticky traps only). As for my comfort there is an in floor heat system, a restroom(no shower), and county appoved septic sysetm. I boil and bottle in the same room. I have no cupala but hoods on both of my pans. But to do this right contact your area Ag Inspector and talk with them from the start it makes life so easy. My Ag person was out 3 times during the summer /fall for me to ask questions and aprove of what I was doing and ok my thought procsess on the next step. When she came for the final inspection there were no suprises. She spent more time in the car doing paper work than in the building looking around. These folks are here to work for you and not be a burden they also have to protect the public food system. So look at this as is it a place I would give my own family syrup from. I hope this helps and you do'nt feel like I skirted your question.

[Tweegs]

Curious about the hot water Firetech. Since we both have the same AG isp…was this something she required, and was there a minimum capacity?

Got me to thinking that I could use a similar set-up as on my camper. Just a 5 gallon propane fired hot water tank, and a pressurized 12 volt water system…I think the holding tank is around 30 gallons.

With having to drain it after every shut-down, I’d like to keep things at a minimum.

[twofer]

Thanks firetech. That is exactly what I was looking for.