Another syrup temp. question

[Bucket Head]

I am not a newbie at this, so I feel funny about asking this one. I will explain why I am confused with this.

I know syrup is syrup at 7.1 degrees over the boiling point. At the evaporator were 1023 ft. above sea level. Water usually boils here at 210, give or take a little depending on atmospheric conditions.

Is there anyone out there making the correct density syrup at something over the 7.1 degrees???

I have a digital barometer/water boiling point meter from Marcland, as well as a digital thermometer from there. I have two stem-type digital thermometers. Two hydrometers and cups, calibrated for 60 degrees. I also have purchased a Misco hand held digital refractometer.

The thermometers are right on with what the barometer says water should boil at. Well, within four tenths of a degree. Close enough anyway. The hydrometers are acouple of years old, so I assume their allright. I bought them new.

I have checked, rechecked, and triple checked the boiling results this season. I have consistantly made 66-67% syrup with the hydrometer at a boiling point of 219-220 degrees.

What is going on here? Did I miss something in the Maple Producers Manual? Did they forget to mention something in the Manual?? Or is my I.Q. lower than my sugar content???

There is no way all of my testing devices are that inaccurate. Any ideas on an explanation?

Steve

[3rdgen.maple]

Bucket I would chalk it up to a very strange year. I have seen the same happen here. 3 thermometers reading the same yet I made syrup according to my hydrometer at something like 8.5 degrees above boiling. Thought I was losing my mind pulled out another hydrometer and read the same. Yesterday the temps here were in the forty's sap ran like !$^#, today it was windy and the high on my thermometer said 32* cloudy and snowing but sap ran pretty good. I have had days where you could not ask for better sap weather and had dry buckets. I just don't get it. I don't consider myself a rookie being the 3 rd generation in my family making syrup on the same land but I sure do feel like one right about now.

[sapman]

What I do, is forget all the thermometer checks, barometric checks, etc. I just set the auto-draw somewhere near it was last, and when it draws, check with the hydrometer, and adjust accordingly. Maybe you already do this, and are just looking for an explanation why things happen like they do. If so, I don't have the answer. Why does my first batch of syrup take more heat to get it right, then drop by a lot once it starts drawing like it should consistently?

Tim

[tapper]

I do exactly the same as sapman. Most days the numbers just dont add up. In the end the hydrometer tells the story and even then with some variations.

[mapleman3]

Bucket head... make sure your hydrometer is correct. the paper can move if the thing gets bumped or dropped in the cup a few times.... good you have two hydrometers-you should ALWAYS have 2 good ones, if they both read the same, your pretty sure they are accurate. most associations will have a clinic to test hydrometers, if not send it to the MFG or Bascoms to check. also if you have a window sill in the sugarhouse or a permanent shelf, mark the height of the paper precisly by standing the hydrometer up on the shelf against the wall . mark the top an the wall so you can check if the paper has slipped down through time, kinda like marking the growth of your kids on the door jam ;)

[Grade "A"]

I have seen the same thing this year. I use two hydrometer and had them checked so there good, then I set my auto draw off and the round syrup thermometer by boiling water. I add 7.1 deg then draw off and it reads light with the hydrometer.

[maple flats]

Mine must be off the other way but I like it. I draw at 219 everyday, run it thru the filterpress and into the canner. Last year I had to thin it every time and this year all but once. I have 3 hydrometers and they all agree. I use an accu cup w/digital thermometer and the temp adjusted hydrometer chart for density. I find it easier and faster to thin than evap more to adjust density.

[Bucket Head]

Thanks for the input guys. I guess I'll just forget the temperature readings and leave it at that.

Its been a strange year alright, bordering very closely on a lousy year.

Too cold, too warm, no sap in my pails either. Then, I get some, and I notice a couple of split pails tonight due to freezing!

Its a shame we put all this time, energy, money, preparation, anticipation, etc., into sugaring and this is what we get.

I know, its Mother Nature, but its still a punch in the gut.

Steve

[maple sapper]

I too have been pulling my hair out trying to find the sweet spot, no pun intended. I found on my rig, 220 pull handle let rip till 219 then add alittle sap for steam off after. I also find its easier to measure the next day when cooled and dont have to rush. let the hydrometer drift down ever so slowly and come back in 10 mins. I grab a measuring cup of concentrated sap out of pan and pour and stir for a bit then check again. Once I get my 66.9 I bottle it. Id rather be a hair over then under. Keeps you from getting mail from the maple inspector.

[Brent]

me too !

I have a Misco Palm Abbe, Accu-cup, 3 hydrometers and an auto draw off.

The first draw off with the auto-draw-off is always down near 64. I pour some of that back and by the 3rd draw everything settles down. But the numbers it settles at are crazy. Sometimes the Micso is high, others it is low compared to the hydrometers in the Accu-cup. I have cross compared the temps the Accu-cup reads and they appear to be bang on.

I figure the Misco gets screwed up on the amound of nitre suspended in the syrup and temperature stabilization. One sample will start high and on repeated re-measurings, it goes lower. Another sample it will creep up.

I can say that the feel of the syrup on the tongue is a pretty good indicator.

It's all bloody voo-doo. Maybe if I keep at this for another 20 years I'll figure it out.

[Brent]

I'd like to add another variable. If you have one of the real skinny hydro cups, they change temp very fast. Talking with our local supplier, most folks do not buy the one that is largest in diameter.

The skinny ones change temp pretty quick. If you fill while the cup is cold and set the hydro in, you can watch it go up as the syrup cools. I wish Maple guys would do a bigger diameter Accu-cup.

[Bucket Head]

Brent,

Twenty years still won't be enough time to figure this stuff out! I've been at it for about that, and no luck yet!!

Do you care for the Misco unit? To be honest, I'm disapointed with mine for the same reasons you give. I thought it was going to be, or it was touted as being, the "end all confusion" syrup measuring tool. It is far from that. The only thing I see it doing accurately and regularly is measuring sap content.

I don't need a $400 sap tester. I'm pretty close to sending it back. I'm on the fence with it. Right now, I'm sorry I spent the money on it.

Steve

[Brent]

Me too Steve. I'd rather have the cash for a real vacuum pump, but it took me a year to figure out how eratic the performance is.

I would NOT recommend a Misco to anyone now.