waterloo evap 2x6

[cmapleboy5]

Thinking of purchasing a new evaporator,,,,Does anyone know how the "professinal" by waterloo rates......I heard it gets 40 gph...Is that true?

If anyone has a 2x8 leader,,,,do u like it? what kind of gph does that get?

thanks

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I don't think there is a 2x6 made stock from the factory that will get 40 gph. I didn't even get that with my stock 2x8. 30 gph is more reasonable with a stock 2x6. If you are going to spend the money, spend the extra little bit and get a 2x8 instead of a 2x6 as you will pick up close to an extra 10 gph for $ 500 or $ 600 more initial investment.
:D :wink:

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I did forget to mention that my evaporator is a Leader 2x8 and I really like it a lot. It will get close to 40 gph stock from factory, but no more. With a blower and other stuff, it would do a lot better. I have a hood, preheater, airtight front and forced air and I expect it to rock for next year! :D

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Why don't you give the maple guys a call who sponsor this website or send them an email or private message. They sell Algier and everyone who owns one really like it a lot and they will probably be able to match or beat anyone else's prices! :D :D :D :D :D

[Breezy Lane Sugarworks]

I have a 2 1/2 x 8 stock dallaire with a factory pre-heater and I can get appx. 80 gph when the fire is crankin'. But the rig is 8" off the floor so the fire can get even that much more air. Before the pre-heater I could get about 65-70 gph. That cpold be because it has deeper and more flues than some rigs out there.

[drew10]

I have been doing maple syrup for about 4 years...but very small (50 taps)......THINKING OF GETTING A LARGER EVAP......ONE question,,,How does a preheater work, and how is it installed in the pan? I am kindof confused....if someone could explain this to me or send me a website address, that will explain it. also how much extra gph will it give me?

thanks
Drew

[mapleman3]

Drew go to my website below, check out sugarhouses from new england, browse thru the different setups, the preheater is a copper set of pipes that carry cold sap above the back sap pan , the steam goes by those pipes and pre heats the sap to almost 180 degs in some eveaporators... this hot sap then goes into the sap pan hot thatnow it will need less time to get to the boiling point to get rid of the water... big difference than 40-50 deg sap going in and slowing the boil. the preheater is in a hood which keeps the stem running past the pipes and real hot!! in the pictures of some setups you will see copper pipes coming out of the back hood.. thats where the preheater is.

[Iver]

I went to the Maine Ag Trade fair and checked out a lot of different evaporators. We want the 2x6 Waterloo that supposedly does 40gph. We heard that the Dallaire 2x6 is the same thing. Raised flue, double door, ss arch, etc. The dealer said that they are made in the same factory in La Guadeloupe, Que. Does anyone know anything else about these evaporators? We plan on tapping about 300 and want to know if this type will handle it.

[Race]

Iver,
I have a 2 1/2 x 8 Dallaire for about 550 taps. It does about 43 gallons per hour and is run stock i.e. no preheat , hood , blower etc. The 2 x 6 would be perfect for your operation but I would expect more like 30 - 35 gallons per hour without enhancements . My Dallaire is about 18 months old and I assume the design is the same as today. I had a Waterloo previously and the Dallaire is a for sure the Cadillac of the two but you will pay more for a Dallaire. I do think that either is an excellent rig and will meet your needs. You can view a picture of mine on Mapleman3 ( Jim ) website. Good luck -------- Race in Wisconsin .

[michaelh05478]

Iver, I had a 2x6 Algier I sold Mapleman3 and it did about 40 gals an hr stock!! You can add a preheater, blower, raise it off the floor but what it boils down to(no pun intended) is how sweet your sap is!!!!! I have a 3x10 oil fired with a preheater and I can make around 3 gals or so an hr..My sap is usually around 2.5 and I have trees that are 4-5 sweet....Lots of variables out there but I do agree with Brandon, go a littlle bigger than you want...Welcome and happy sugaring!!!!! Mike

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Iver,

Why don't you contact Chris(mapleguys) as they handle Algier which is similar to both of the ones you mentioned. He could probably beat anyone's price and may even deliver it to you! :D :D

I don't think there is a stock evaporator of any kind that will do 40 gph. As the prior post stated, a 2.5 x 8 only does about 43 gph stock. I can't even get 40 gph stock on my 2x8. 30 gph is good for a 2x6 and 35 is probably tops and and don't think you could get that if you didn't have a blower or something like that added on. :?

[john l]

iver i have a2by6dominion grimm 7in dropflue that does 38gal per hour
without forceddraft or steemaway just dry wood

[gmcooper]

Iver,
The Dallaire is a good unit from a good manufacturer. 40 gal hour seems like a bit of a sales pitch. We had a King 2 1/2 x 8 that really would do 50 gal hour with decent wood with no blower or preheater. The Waterloo dealer that you talked with has a 2x6 with a Hurricane arch. they claim 80 gal hour and no preheater. Never seen it work.
Good Luck
Mark

[Iver]

It's fun to check them all out and kick the tires. How is the Algier? Is it essentially the same as the Waterloo and Dallaire? There's a guy who has a 2x6 nearby and we may take a ride to see it this Saturday. I know we need a bigger rig, and we're checking out all the possibilities. Eventually we'd like to put the steam hood on and get hot water for cleaning up while we're boiling. We haul water for each boil, so that would save a lot of lugging. We're having a cut done this winter, so we may be able to string more tubing and increase our taps next season.

[syrupmaker]

Iver....Take into consideration the possibility of adding and adding and adding taps as the years go by. Bite the bullet now and go to a 2x8 allowing room for adding those taps as the years fly by.

Rick

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Iver,

Rick is right about the 2x8. It only cost $ 500 to $ 600 more for a 2x6 vs a 2x6 and you could get 8 to 10 more gph. This is one of the few good deals left in maple. You get aprox a 30% increase in evaporation for only a little more investment. :D

[Iver]

Sounds good, maybe with a little rearrangement we could fit a 2x8. I'll consult my partner who I sugar with. We may have up to 400 taps eventually. We could put the tanks outside and get a bit more room. Who makes a good 2x8? Is there a 3x6? We'll start to think about it.

[michaelh05478]

For the money you can't beat Algiers........Nothing wrong with a good used one.....They do make a 3x8 and 3x10......and bigger......

[Iver]

What do you think of the Waterloo 2x6'6? It's a little longer and says it's good up to 500 taps. That may be the one if we can swing it.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Iver,

I have a 2x8 which is a 1.5' longer than the evaporator from Waterloo. It seems Waterloo greatly exagerates their gph rates. I have 425 taps with my 2x8 drop flue and the 2x6.5 Waterloo is a dropped flue and I am close to maximum for my schedule. Might be alright if you have all day every day to boil and you want to spend long days boiling. Go with a 2x8, not much more money and about 10 more gph. Algier makes a nice evaportor. I have bought stuff from Waterloo and every time, their service is terrible!

As far as customer service and quality if you are concerned about that, Leader is the best, but costs the most! :?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I checked on the Waterloo in question as I was originally interested in one and if I remember correctly, the raised flue model has 9 flues and the drop flue has 8 I believe! :?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

post edited

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Possibly, but most raised flues the flues don't go the entire length of the pan and most dropped flues go the entire length of the pan, so it probably balances out! :?

The extra flue would probably give you an extra 3 gallon on a 2x6 max.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

One thing to remember about the 2x6 Waterloo is that they are only 23" wide. I don't like the idea of selling a 2' evaporator when it is only 23". You will lose about 4% or about 1.5 gph per 1". 8O

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

post edited.

[RUSTYBUCKET]

John l,

Couple of questions about your 2x6 DG. With 7" flues, is that the model 500 or 700?? Could you tell me how much $$$$ it cost? Thanks


Russ

[john l]

rusty bucket
my evaporator is a model 700 it is 2 years old I paid 2695 new this rig will be for sale after sugurin im getting a 4by 12
1200 taps on vacum
not enough capacity hope to stop boiling 24/7

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

John,

That must be a record, 1200 taps on a 2x6. 8O 8O 8O 8O Be curious to see how much you make this season??

Do you have an RO?

[john l]

westv mapler
no R O on board i dont really beleive in them the closest thing i have to that is a L V loving wife that ill be sucking up to this year hopfully it works she will boil 10 hrs i will boil 12 hrs
takes a lot of drive to boil 1200 taps
on a 2by6

[brookledge]

John,
How much syrup did you make with the 1200 taps? You say you have all on vacuum and I know that I get about 2 gal of sap per day per tap on a good day. If you are getting that, thats 2400 gal per day with A 2x6 boiling 35-40 gph. At 40 gph thats 60 hrs of boiling.
God bless you for being able to keep up to it.
Keith

[john l]

brookledge we have never boiled off this many before last year we taped 750 and was getting 600 gallons of sap our sugar bush has a north slope it never starts running until 1.30 - 2.00
i have seen a lot of days the sugar content was high enough to make agallon off 27-30 gallons of sap hopfully that is the case this year

[john l]

lobsafari
we are located in canton the town that washed away by the flood last winter so the news made it sound anyway

[RUSTYBUCKET]

John,

Thanks for the reply. Hope you have a good year.


Russ

[maplemi]

I am not very knowledgeable on these new evaporators, but
What is the difference, between a raised or drop flue, and which is better?
Also, when someone says "it has 5" or 7" flues? What is that refering to?

thanks
coly :?:

[john l]

cody
the difference between 5 and 7 in flue is the depth the flues hang down on a flue pan the difference in a drop or raised is a matter of prefferance a drop is getting more heat to your flue pan according to dominion grimm
john

[forester1]

Cody,
Also a raised flue has the flues up as part of the pan and the flame is directed up into the pan by baffles in the arch. A dropped flue has the flues hanging down into the arch. Both have their fans and one is not necesarily better than the other. The old Ford and Chevy argument. A raised flue is said to be longer lasting and more durable and a dropped flue faster boiling but I'm not sure if that is true.

[brookledge]

I have been told that most evaporators that are 4 feet wide and narrower will have more flues with a raised system than a dropped pan. When you get into wider pans dropped flues that have more flues than raised will give you alot more boiling capacity. The down side to dropped flues are that they cost more to make than a raised. You could buy a 2 foot longer raised flue for the same price as a shorter dropped flue. Also raised flue require two floats wereas dropped only one. Another issue some times is the fact that your feed tank has to be higher for a raised flue.
Keith

[ontario guy]

This is turning into a very interesting discussion.

I have been thinking of starting my own maple supply business and i have been out here listening to all the knowledge that everyone has to offer out there.

I have been told many different prefferences.

Drop flue vs raised flue. interesting....
drop flue is supposed to be cheaper for two reasons... less steel and only one float.. this is why they are so popular for the entry level (only one float to worry about and lower price) The drawback is that you only have one level for the whole setup... very dangerous if you are trying to run your rig at 1/2 to 1 inch. One other problem with this settup is the chance to knock your flues with firewood while firing... has anyone caused a leak from doing this

raised flue is more expensive and yes you need your holding tank at a higher level to maintain static pressure. The flues are harder to clean on these, but you have flexibility as a trade off. You can run your flue pan at a different level than your surup pan. Might be a good option for some... personally i think this might be a selling point for me.

Now the whole issue of GPH can be very confusing.
is total surface area of your pans directrly related to GPH..
example 24 by 48 inch flat pan = 1152sq/in =10gph
24 by 48 with 8- 5inch flues =4992sq/in = would this be 43 gph
24 by 48 with 8- 7inch flues =6528sq/in = would this be 56 gph
this is only with the flue pan.
it does not seem very proportional.
Is there a formula to calculate theoretical gph?

How much extra do you get with a hood?

just trying to get the facts straight.

Mark

[mapleboy8]

I notice alot of people have 200,600, 1000+ taps,,,what the heck do u do with all the syrup? Do you sell it? Is there a market good for syrup? Is there any $ in it.

Just wondering.

pete

[Dropflue]

If theres a 2x6 that can do 40 GPH, then come over and show me how its done!!!! I'm running gas that keeps a constant steady heat at all times, I also keep the pans very shallow (Almost close to scorching at times). The best I can do is maybe, and I say maybe 30 GPH. When evaporation rates are estimated, are people keeping taking accurate readings on the excact amount of sap thay have in there holding tank or are they just estimating? For example : if you said you had 185 gal in your holding tank and boiled 6 hrs, that would 30.83 gph. But what if you off by 15 gal and had only 170 gallons, that would be only 28. 3 gph. It's like saying what kind of gas mileage you get with car, If you aren't presise with your measurements, you can exaggerate the mileage. I use a water meter to measure the excact amount of sap I have to boil with that day. I think thats about has accurate has you can get.

IF theres anybody who can get 40 gph out of my 2x6 gas fired 7" drop flue evaporator with steam hood, come on over. FREE BEER ,PIZZA & WINGS to the first person who does!!

Thats my two cents on 2x6 evaporation rates!

DROPFLUE

[syrupmaker]

Now Rick you know it's gonna take a few cases just to get a looking at. And turning ideas around in a guys head CAN cause severe hunger pains. So maybe you should change that post to free beer,pizza and wings to the people who gather to get this project figured out.

Cant gaurantee the results but i know we'll be able to eat and drink this project to death. :wink: :wink:

Rick

[Al]

Now I'd be up for that kind of project! :D Especially if Rick's there with his thinking cap on. :lol: If you happen to see a black F150 extended cab pull in with Vt. plates. It will be me. The problem with sugaring is you just can't get the time to visit everyone because your busy too.

[Dropflue]

I didn't want to appear as a "smart ***" with my last posting, but when I hear about evaporation rates exceeding 40 gph from a 2x6, I start asking myself if I'm doing something wrong? Seriously, if some one is doing 40 gph plus from a 2x6, then god bless them. I would like to know how. My offer of beer & pizza is still open even if you want to come over and talk about the concept.

Dropflue

[backyardsugarer]

Dropflue,

I have a 2x6 drop flue d & g and I could not agree with you more. When I am cranking I am lucky to get 30gph. I have a hood, blower and home made pre-heater. I am interested in the beer you speak of though :wink: I will probably do a test boil/cleaning this weekend if the temps are decent.

Chris

[mapleman3]

I believe I was getting close to 35gph last year on a 2x6 "raised flue" wood with blower! super dry mixed wood... kept it glowing hot, and I think I wasn't getting the back pan dancing like it should have also, so I think I could have got an easy 40gph with hood and preheater.

[Dropflue]

Jim,
I'll order a sheet pizza & buy a case of Genny Cream Ale!! Come On Down!!! :D


Rick (Dropflue)

[mapleman3]

thinking there must be a better boiling rate with the raised flue!

[syrupmaker]

Dropflue.....Better order a porta-poti with an extra case of TP if your serving up the cream ale.

Jim i think your being called out! Best to stop on over with the family.They can stay with my wife and kids and we can head to dropflues place.

There is always the YA'LL COME WEEKEND party to gather at and socialize at for this discusion too. :wink:

Rick

[Race]

I think it is best to discuss seasonal evaporation rates not mention just the best ever achieved . As everyone knows factors such as humidity , wood dryness and type , fire tending . evaporator design , oil , fans ,preheaters and other enhancements all play a role. What is more important is what can be expected on the average day of boiling .
My stock 2 1/2 x 8 made about 219 gallon of finished syrup with a seasonal average of about 43 gallons per hour . I had days over 50 and some in the mid 30 's . The fact is most do not feed the fire the same every day as other tasks need to be performed , instructions given , kids kept in line , beer coolers tended to , pizza cut , dog let out , sap collected , lines kept open , cell phone discussions etc. etc. . All these may slow the rates but that is reality. My stock evaporator therefore on the average day does 43 gallons per hour . On its very best day when I am at my optimum with mother nature it will send about 54 gallons per hour through the roof , I cannot however sustain that day in day out.

[themapleking]

Rick; what do I win If I get SAY 50+ gph out of your rig.

JOE

[brookledge]

ontario guy,
I was saying that dropped flues cost more than raised. I have a 2002 price list on every type of pans that Leader/Grimm made. Unless other manufactuers vary in the cost of their pans the larger you go the more expensive the difference is.
2X4 welded raised flue pan cost 1625.00
2X4 welded Drop Flue pan cost 1700.00
3X8 welded raised flue pan cost 3750.00
3X8 welded Drop flue pan cost 4400.00
6X10 welded raised flue pan cost 8725.00
6X10 welded drop flue pan cost 9810.00
As you can see the small pans are not that different but by the time you get to 6X10 a drop flue cost 1085 more. The same cost ratio held true for soldered pans. When I bought my new one in 2002 I was planning on buying a new 3X10 with a drop flue. The dealer pointed out that a 3X12 with a raised flue would only be $35.00 more I decided to buy a 3X12 and for the extra 35.00 i get far more boiling capacity than I would with a 2 foot shorter rig.

[mapleman3]

Jeremy, your right though about staying on top of your firing... I found last year from your post that every 8 minute firing worked fantastic for me.. with a timer, stayed on top of it!! thats how I kept the boil at it's max!!

[Race]

I also agree on the importance of firing often and with dry wood . I think about 90 % of the performance of a wood fired rig depends on the person tending to the fire. Oh well , no matter how you do it --- keep it rolling and syrup will come out the other end. I hope that all you guys have a fun season.

Race 2 1/2 x 8 Dallaire --- No tricks just wood

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The drier the wood and the more seasoned, the better it will boil. One thing you are forgetting to point out, the gph rates include startup and shutdown. If it takes 15 minutes up and 15 minutes down, that is another 1/2 hour that needs to be taken into account. Normally gph rates are overstated, don't know I have ever seen anyone understate them! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[brookledge]

Another thing about wood that I have found out over the years is that the same wood that is stored inside a closed wood shed will get a higher boiling rate than if it was stored outside covered up. Wood stored outside even if it is covered good will have a higher moisture content.
Keith

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Keith is exactly right. What happens with the covered wood outside it whatever is covering normally sweats and it also prevents moisture from escaping correctly. :?

[forester1]

Does anyone know which type of evaporator is more popular today, raised or dropped flue? I would take a guess raised flue since more companies offer that type exclusively and most that have dropped flue evaporators offer both types.

[Dropflue]

Rick; what do I win If I get SAY 50+ gph out of your rig.

JOE
I gallon of maple syrup (Light Amber of course!)

Rick (Dropflue)

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I would think raised flue would have to be the most popular since they are a lot cheapier and eaiser to make. Even if the drop flue is better, consumers want the best price and evap companies can make raised flues faster giving them more profit turnover. :D

[RUSTYBUCKET]

Ontario Guy,

In your post about drop flue evaporators (wood fired) you talk about the concern of damgaing the flues. DG manufactures their drop flues with a beveled bottom corner which presumably will help to deflect wood if it hits the flue at the bottom. In addition, the end welds of the flues are recessed so that if a piece if wood contacts the flue dead on, its not hitting the weld directly. This is how the flues on our DG Sportsman are built.

These two points were brought out by a member of this board in a past discussion about drop flue vs. raised flue design.


Russ

Credit for the info about DG flue design goes to WF Mason. He mentioned this in the thread "Drop or Raised Flue" back on 4-20-04.


Russ

[Breezy Lane Sugarworks]

That may be true for the D&G rigs, but I have heard of many others out there that don't have angled flues and they have been broke because of being hit by wood. That's why many people say that raised flue is better for woodfired, but if D&G is making there flues with the angles, I think it is a great idea and other manufacturers should take that into consideration.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

One thing to take into consideration is that the drop flues that were damaged by wood were probably 24 gauge and soldered. My Leader has the flues straight down and the entire length of the pan and I don't see how anyone could not a hole in them unless they were throwing bricks at them continually. They are 20 gauge and extremely sturdy. I looked at the D&G flues at the NY conference this year and they do have a good design, but I can't see where they are any better than the Leader flue. One thing about the Leader flue is that it runs the entire length of the pan and is not angled. You lose a lot of heat area where the angles are cut off! :idea:

[gmcooper]

I am on my 3rd drop flue and never had a leek in any. The first was a 30 yr old vermont that is now 15 years older and 200miles further north and as of last season still going. Our 30"x8 King we used for 12 years no leeks and I know it took many hits with wood. All of them were soldered pans.

[DirtPoor]

"you lose alot of heat area where the flue angle is cut off'' , HAAAAAAA,
LOL

[themapleking]

Drop flue isn't better than raised flue. And raised isn't better than drop flue. They both do the same thing make syrup. Theirs no reason to throw wood in so far or hard that your hitting the flues.
Most fire boxes are farley large, if your hitting the flues cut shorter wood. Be nice to your evaporater and it'll last.

P.S. Raised flue is better 2 floats are better than 1. Drop flue seams to get more heat in the back pan.
It's all in how well your arch is designed and set up. Thats the differance in max gph. Not drop vs raised.
Enough on this section. New topic.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck?

[michaelh05478]

|As far as raised flue or drop flue......|I think your choice of which is best will be what you cut your sugaring teeth on.......|I started out on a raised flue wood..I now have a 3x10 raised flue oil...|Is it correct to say |How many gals per hour it'll boil or how many gals of syrup you make per hour :?: :?: You can make a gal of syrup in an hour but how many gals of sap did it take????

[syrupmaker]

If a woodchuck could chuck wood i'd have him at my place chuckin and i'd be a stackin! :wink:

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

From what it seems in talking to others, the preference is whatever you cut your teeth on. If you start out on a raised, you will probably stay with it and vice versa on a drop flue. Of course, it is that way with a lot of things in life! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[mapleman3]

Start with a Porsche.... stay with a Porsche!! :wink:

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

post edited

[mapleman3]

I don't quite follow ... trying to picture what you are describing..sorry :?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

post edited

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

2+2 = 4 Just like a Leader flue = a lot more flue area than a D&G. Might not seem like a lot, but if it gives you 2 or 3 more gallon an hour, that adds up to a lot over the season in time and wood saved. Leader flues are also 1/2" deeper than others if that means anything.
:?

[themapleking]

Last I'd check Leader and D&G are now the same company.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

post edited

[DirtPoor]

"you lose alot of heat area where the flue angle is cut off'' , HAAAAAAA,
LOL







''most people know something , some people know 'Everything'. I like most people''

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Dirtpoor,

No offense meant at all towards you or your evaporator. I apologize for any offense on my part but we could do without the snide comments on this website. :(

[ontario guy]

just as a third party observer, but i don't think you guys were talking about the same thing. One is an angle on the bottom of the flue to get more surface are, and the other i think is an angle cut off the front of the flues to prevent wood from damaging the flue. It is just what it sounded like to me.

The quality of people on this board is great and everyone can make a mistake and it is always fixed right away... good job guys.

[RUSTYBUCKET]

Ontario Guy,

You got it. I think Brandon and I were referring to two different things.

I would like to see a raised unit in action. If anyone running a rasied flue unit within a 50-75 mile radius of my area is open to a visit, I'd like to stop for a lesson.



Russ

[mapleman3]

Joe the MapleKing has a 3x10 Algier Raised flue I bet he would be more than willing to get a visitor!! he is in Colden NY

[themapleking]

All and any visitors welcome.

Some people know everything and I know it all.
If not I'll shoot from the hip with out thinking just to write a post.

[syrupmaker]

Jim Rusty is closer to you than Joe. Buy a new set of pans and i'll stop over with the brews and Rusty.

Rick

[sweetwoodmaple]

Reviving an old post here (hope I'm not stirring up too much trouble :wink: )

When it comes to the cut off flues, my mentality was that it was a struggle between having a longer flue pan that intrudes somewhat into the fire box with cut off flues or having a shorter flue pan with standard square flues.

I.E. My small D&G has only a 2' long syrup pan. It would be tougher to load if it had square flues since the fire box is 2' long as well and you are suppose to fire 6" from the door!

The comparison would be a 2 x 6 (in my case) with an evaporator with 2 x 3 flue pan and 2 x 3 syrup pan or a 2 x 4 with cut off flues and 2 x 2 syrup pan.

Or, In Brandon's case, shrinking his syrup pan to 2' long and using a 2 x 6 flue pan with cut off flues and compare boiling rate and syrup quality to his current setup.

Brian