Foaming problem in syrup pan

[Maplewalnut]

For the last two boils I have been having a heck of a tiome with foaming in my syrup pan. It is a four divided pan and the only part that boils instead of faoms is the sap side. All other chambers are foaming terribly. Although I do not make a ahbit of adding defoamer in the syrup pan, I trioed two drops tonight and it didn't touch it. Had a consistent boil in all sections up until a few days ago. Even reversed the flow tonight and no luck.

Any ideas?

[mapleman3]

how much sugar sand is on the bottom?
you may need to clean the pan.

[Maplewalnut]

Jim- the problem started immediately after I had cleaned the pan, which is why I am stumped. I am going to check it again tomorrow after work, but I am not thinking there will be too much, maybe?

[Russell Lampron]

My evaporator does the same thing sometimes after it gets warmed up. At that point I put the defoamer to it, added in the channel near the draw off. Use larger pieces of wood and put them in further away from the doors but still keep it on the grates. And as a last resort I close the draft door. I hate closing the draft door because it slows down the boil in the flue pan. It is hard to imagine what someone with a shallow pan does. Our front pans are 18" deep and it is very easy to boil them over.

[cncaboose]

You may not be adding enough defoamer to the flue pan. I had similar problems as you until I read in the 101 Tips and Tricks to Make Better Syrup booklet to add defoamer at the sap inflow every time you fire. The booklet was written by an awardwinning syrup producer and has some excellent tips in there. I add about 2 drops now every time I fire. Lo and behold, no foaming problems anywhere and rarely even have to skim. In the short run you will probably have to add more defoamer near your drawoff until you get this batch of syrup thru the evaporator.

[jason loper]

We had the same trouble tonight and we could not get it under control at all....we run the sap through th RO to about 8% then into the evap and everything has been fine...we put defoamer in the flue pan and sometimes in the syrup pan if needed but tonight we were pulling syrup of like crazy then all of the sudden the syrup pan started foaming real bad and the defoamer wouldn't touch it....we had to keep leaving the doors open so it wouldn't foam over....i do have alot of sugar sand in the pan will that cause this?

Thanks
Jason

[PerryW]

I'm not sure I understand the problem. Are you saying that your syrup pan if foaming up too much?

I would just use more defoamer, or switch to another type of defoamer. I try to avoid adding defoamer before a take-off, but always end up having to use it or there would be a big mess.

[jason loper]

the defoamer wouldn't even touch the foam....we had been using Half and Half which may be the problem...last year we used D&G defoamer and had did not like it but this year we had been doing fine with the Half and Half until last night...today i'm going to try and find something else

[PerryW]

I've been using corn oil for the last several years.

It doesn't spoil, has NO animal fats (Kosher? and Veg-head approved) and seems to work okay.

[maple flats]

I've been having the same problem this year. When the normal bubbling changes to a light colored foam (seems to happen about every 6-8 hrs boil time) I have to shut down and clean the syrup pan. It gets a hard scale buildup of niter. I've never had it like this in my previous 6 years. Other years the sugarsand has been loose. As others say, defoamer does little or nothing.

[Homestead Maple]

It must be a characteristic of the sap this year, I'm guessing. I've had the same problem this year and I haven't seen it this way in a long time. I add Atmos 300 defoamer in my Steamaway and have never had to use it any place else in the evaporator to control foaming.

[Dave Puhl]

I use canola oil 3-4 drops on each side of the flue pan whenever it starts to foam...I never had to put any in the syrup pan...

[jason loper]

Last night i cleaned the front pan and started and then put the sryup in that foamed the night before back in the pan and everything was fine...then about 3-4 hrs into it it started again and we had to to slow down in order to keep it under control...I tried the canola oil but that wouldn't help we are getting very frustrated...maybe i need to switch sides more often this year

[woodshillmaple]

I tried using nonstick cooking spray which is essentially canola oil this year. I buy the cheap brand it works great. I tap the spray nozzle as quickly as possible and it puts the foam right down.

[hillside maple syrup]

an old timer trick is to lay a piece of bacon over the side into the pan

[Diezeldog]

Well this is my first post. I'm pretty green but when mine gets to much foam I put a smal stick into a glass of milk and then put the stick in the foam and its gone. It only takes a couple of drops of milk to calm it down. Thats what works on my small rig. It's going to be alot bigger next year though.
My dad has about 2000 taps so we'll see if I can make barrels next year instead of gallons.

[maple flats]

I tried switching sides every 3 hrs, did help but very slightly. I still ended up cleaning the pan every 6-8 hrs but the cleaning was a little easier/faster. It would surely help to have a spare syrup pan this year.

[Dave Puhl]

We would like to know how often are you adding your canola... I have a 2x6 and about every 45 min I give it a shot...with a 3x8 more often I would think... what gph are you running....

[PerryW]

WHen my syrup pan starts really foaming, it's usually a sign that you need to add more wood to the fire. (bear with me here) When your wood is mostly burned up, you are left with a huge pile of coals that radiate directly up and give the Syrup pan more heat than usual. Even opening the door will not reduce this radiant heat.

SO next time it foams up, open the door and stoke it up.

RE defoaming: Once things get hot, I need to defoam my back pan every 10-15 minutes. My syrup pan required defoaming more infrequently, but probably once every hour or so.

sap pan boiling short video:

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/perryW/?action=view&current=MapleSapBoil.flv

syrup pan boiling short video

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/perryW/?action=view&current=SyrupBoilSMall.flv

[HHM-07]

jason

i use vegie oil take a peice of wire a foot long or so just touch the tip of it in the oil then snap it off, when it starts to boil over just lightly touch the top of the foam and down it goes


Dick

[Russell Lampron]

I was using canola oil and just switched back to Atmos 300. I'm not having the foaming problem anymore. I put a couple of drops into the float box for the flue pan every 2nd or 3rd time that I fire and it is working good.

My grandfather used to hang a piece of salt pork on a string over the flue pan. The foam would go right down when it hit it. Now a days commercial defoamers or canola oil are the best things to use. Using dairy products like cream, milk or butter can cause reactions in people who are lactose intolerant. Pork products aren't kosher for the Jewish customers and can flavor the syrup. Organic canola oil is available for those that are organic certified. Of course if you are making syrup for your own consumption you can use what works best for you.

[maplekids]

if you need butter in the front pan you are not using enough in the back pan.:)

[70 Buick]

this has been a great read for me
I had a big problem with that last year (my first year)
Thanks all this site rocks!!

We would take the pans off and put them back on LOL, what a waste of time

[findandy]

Have to agree with Perry W (if I got the name right). On my oil fired rig I tried a smaller nozzle, I had a terrible time with it foaming over. Called Leader, They asked my nozzle size, and without blinking an eye told me I needed the size I switched from. I was not getting enough fire to the flue pan. So with a normal???? amount of defoamer the key is to get the heat to where the largest amount of evaperation takes place. Too much heat up the stack is not good (especially with oil) and a fire box FULL is not good, you need a place for the gasses from the wood to burn. Flames out the stack is only wasting wood. Getting a good system of firing is important. That person my be the most important person in your operation, try to keep the same person doing it. Don from Fine-n-dandy