Congress takes steps to effectively outlaw small farms and small food producers.

[softmaple]

I found this article on a bee fourm. it might be intresting to read.



Congress takes steps to effectively outlaw small farms and other small food producers.

Are you wondering what your elected officials are up to?

You might not be selling Honey or anything else at your local farmers market soon if this stuff passes.

HR 425
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.875: (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.875:)
Quote:
Section 3 which is the definitions portion of the bill-read in it's entirety.
section 103, 206 and 207- read in it's entirety.
Red flags I found and I am sure there are more...........

Legally binds state agriculture depts to enforcing federal guidelines effectively taking away the states power to do anything other than being food police for the federal dept.
Effectively criminalizes organic farming but doesn't actually use the word organic.
Effects anyone growing food even if they are not selling it but consuming it.
Effects anyone producing meat of any kind including wild game.
Legislation is so broad based that every aspect of growing or producing food can be made illegal. There are no specifics which is bizarre considering how long the legislation is.
Section 103 is almost entirely about the administrative aspect of the legislation. It will allow the appointing of officials from the factory farming corporations and lobbyists and classify them as experts and allow them to determine and interpret the legislation. Who do you think they are going to side with?
Section 206 defines what will be considered a food production facility and what will be enforced up all food production facilities. The wording is so broad based that a backyard gardener could be fined and more.
Section 207 requires that the state's agriculture dept act as the food police and enforce the federal requirements. This takes away the states power and is in violation of the 10th amendment.
And to add insult to injury take a gander at S 425

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.425: (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.425:)

[forester1]

The worst unsanitary places seem to be the large factory operations like that peanut processing facility. The small operators aren't the problem, but they are the ones that suffer under this type of attempted fix.

[saphead]

It is alarming @ what has been signed into law and what will be shortly signed into law! Check out this link to the Blair Holt Firearm Act that was attached to the latest "stimulus" bill http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text. Our food supply now hinges on factory farms,processed foods(if you can call it food)and imports.Our stockpile of grain is
@ all time lows and I just read that France will no longer be exporting wheat to the US! What...?? we've been buying wheat from France! You may want to double or triple what you have kept in reserve for your own syrup supply.Control a nation's food supply and you can control the nation!I don't mean to sound like an alarmist but things are changing rapidly in this country.50,000 people protested recently @ city hall in NYC about budget(entitlement) cuts.What's going to happen when there's not enough food?Next month the military will be holding "domestic disturbance" training in Indiana(I think that's the right State) which is against the constitution!Don't be surprised if the dollar crashes and marshal law is put in place this year. Don't mean to be so long winded and freak anyone out but be prepared!

[Clan Delaney]

Ack.

If programmers wrote code like lawmakers write bills, everything computer based would cease to function. It would take me a year just to wrap my head around everything that bill is trying to do. And to think, stuff like that actually has a chance of becoming a law.

My wife is big into knitting, crochet, crafting and other manner of handmade products. She and her contemporaries are in the midst of raging over a bill designed to protect us all from deadly toys, but with it's mammoth requirements for testing (to prove that your toy won't give someone cancer, or whatever) it effectively drives any toy producer that's not already a conglomerate out of the market due to the costs involved.

So where am I going with this? Well, one of her friends makes quilts for children. On Facebook one day she was lamenting the effects the bill would have on her small business and one of the responses was this: "This bill is for toys? Fine. Let it be. Start calling your quilts 'soft art'. Voila! Law no longer applies."

So, we just stop calling our syrup food and start calling it.... hmmmm... a seasonal collectible. Eat it if you want, it's up to you. Problem solved. Tap more trees. Make more collectible. :D :D

[mapleman3]

I don't buy it!

[johnallin]

My father - a Canadian WWII foot soldier who spent 4 years, as a very young man, marching and fighting his way across Europe - said before he died in 2001 " They will take this country without firing a shot, be careful."

As fifth generation Cadadians, he and my mother brought 5 of us kids to this county as young children. He never regretted the move for a moment and is buried here, but boy would he be *&^%% now if he knew what was going on.

His words ring in my head everytime I look around any more, and now at 55 years old not much makes sense to me - keep your powder dry boys.

[BarrelBoiler]

The law Clan was sighting was about lead in paint on toys from china.It really points up what can happen when our politions react in a knee jerk fashion and don't read what their passing and this is just one example. unintended consequences

[markcasper]

saphead: You hit the nail on the head.

The Pentagon has did studies and says after 5 days and no food, 95% of people will kill to eat!

[WF MASON]

Several weeks ago in a local paper here there was an article on business being hurt by the china paint protection law. One small company , home based made polar fleece hats for adults and hat mitten sets for kids, the law says anything made for anyone under twelve years old , a sample of the order must be sent in with a $500. check for lead testing. One lady in the article said many ski areas would order ten adult hats and ten kid sets , about $7. bucks a piece at a time, then she was to make an extra set to send to the goverment with a check for $500. for batch testing,she stopped making the kids sets , half of her companys orders.
If Walmart is getting a container from china with hats , I'm sure $500. bucks for having it checked is nothing.
'Goverment by the people and for the people', could be on thin ice.

[tapper]

They will take this country without firing a shot, be careful."
Johnallin, This was told to me way back in the mid eighties.

'Goverment by the people and for the people', could be on thin ice.
wfmason, Our country has been on thin ice for many years now we have all been too complaisant for too long.

[Stickey]

Maple syrup will be the new moonshine.....turning farmers to gangsters. LOL


Somehow I just can't see it.


However if you sell food that makes people ill, there should be some ramifications. Like, paying for their health care, now that sounds like punishment to me. LOL

[dano2840]

gunna have to put a 350 big block in the ol CRV and beef the suspension so she dont apear to look like its loaded, going to have to build a sugar house up in the mnts, where no one will see the steam and only boil at night, im gunna be a straight up G. LoL

[TapME]

you lose you rights every day you just don't know it.

My dad who went through 7 invasions in ww2 says the ss and kgb are here now and you ain't stopping them. Just think 850,000 tax laws in the irs how many in your state. And he wants more, and more. Credit with bottomless pockets. wish i had that. Guns will be next. The sheep will follow them off the cliff just as the mice did the piper. Use to be my 2 cents worth .02 cents now.

I love to rant and rave.

[Revi]

They are going to have to pry my evaporator from my cold, dead hands.

What are they thinking? It's hard enough to do any kind of farming, without them messing with it.

We'll be like Zimbabwe. No farms, no food.

[Greenthumb]

Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:05:49 PM by SeekAndFind

If you wanted to turn the United States of America into a socialist country, what strategy would you adopt? Joseph Stalin, the world’s top communist from 1924 to 1953, is reputed to have advocated the following strategy to William Z. Foster, leader of the Communist Party U.S.A.: “Work for more government intervention and control of the business activities of the people. In this way the American people will accept Communism without knowing it.”

Stalin would be pleased with the trend in America since he dispensed that advice. He would be positively delighted with the recent partial nationalizations of the housing, mortgage, financial, and insurance industries during the Crash of 2008. He would be even more thrilled by the future prospects for socialism in America.

The Democrats seem to have found the perfect strategy to replace free markets with government control. Their game plan is now clear: to move incrementally but inexorably from capitalism (free markets) to socialism (government control of economic activity).

The first stage in that transition, the proverbial nose of the camel under the tent, was accomplished by earlier generations of politicians, primarily Democratic. It was to condition Americans to view government as a player, rather than a referee, in all sorts of previously private markets. That is, sell the voters on a government program for some worthy cause—nothing as radical as total government control, but simply as a supplementary aid in some important area of life, such as retirement, health care, housing, energy. Thus, Social Security was created to put a modest floor under Americans’ retirement income; Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to help poorer Americans afford homes; Medicare and Medicaid to help seniors and the poor afford medical care; the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. to insure bank deposits; the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp. to insure pensions, etc., etc., etc.

The second stage in creeping socialism is to keep expanding government programs. This is easy in a democracy. Understanding the political dynamic so pithily summarized by the great playwright (and socialist) George Bernard Shaw—“The government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul”—the politicians who want greater government control carry the day. The party of Bigger Government—the Democrats—has skillfully employed demagoguery against all who dare question the wisdom or long-term financial viability of such programs, shamelessly and unfairly denouncing them as heartless and uncaring. This Democratic and democratic pressure intimidates some Republicans to become “pragmatists” who acquiesce in fiscally unsustainable policies. The result has been that Congress has repeatedly increased the vote-buying benefits, while avoiding the prudent, but politically unpopular, steps of maintaining programs on a solid financial footing.

That brings us to the present. Today’s Democrats—some crypto-socialists, others not bashful about showing their socialist stripes—actually desire the fiscal mismanagement that bankrupts federal programs, because it precipitates stage three of their strategy: the crisis stage. During a crisis, the choice becomes whether to shut down the insolvent program, or to rescue the program since so many Americans have become dependent upon it. Few Republicans are willing to tell scared Americans that government can’t help them during an emergency (e.g., President Bush during the current crisis), and that gives rise to stage four.

The fourth stage of socialism on the installment plan has dawned in 2008. It is rescuing programs in the crisis stage by nationalizing them. You can choose to believe that Congress was taken by surprise by the looming bankruptcy of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but it wasn’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if Barney Frank and other leading Democrats, who successfully blocked earlier Republican attempts to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, uncorked champagne bottles when Uncle Sam became the largest mortgage holder and de facto landlord in the country by nationalizing the bankrupt mortgage giants. They will celebrate again when the federal Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation goes broke and Uncle Sam nationalizes private pensions. Ditto for when the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation some day runs out of funds and banks have to be nationalized.

Still looming in the future are the Big Three of precariously under-funded future liabilities: Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. The Democrats are playing a giant game of chicken as these three programs march inexorably toward insolvency—Medicare alone being under-funded by $36 trillion for the next 65 years. Democrats reject all attempts to reform these programs and put them on a sounder financial footing. When George Bush suggested private accounts as part of a possible reform, the Democrats went berserk. Being socialistic, they are as terrified of private property as Dracula is of a cross. We were given a peek of the future of Social Security in October when Congressman George Miller (D-CA) held hearings that included discussion of nationalizing Americans’ IRAs.

Like the frog who doesn’t realize it is being boiled until it is too late to jump out of the pot, at some point during the ongoing government takeover of Americans’ businesses and wealth, we could wake up in a new country. The U.S.A. could morph into the D.S.S.A., the Democratic Socialist States of America, with the Democrats entrenched in power, overseeing it all. That is their end game.

An interesting article I came across awhile back.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Amen! Well put!!!!!

[stevepipkin]

As a person in the grocery industry, i have an intimate association with the issues driving HR425. There have been several cases of food contamination that most of us are aware of: salmonella in peanut butter, a suspected rare form of salmonella in tomatoes: E.Coli in spinach, E. Coli in apple juice and apple cider. Beef contamination etc. There have been many more.

In every case that I am aware of, the culprit has been the agricultural practices of agribusiness and the processing practices of agribusiness. You can bet that the people shaping this particular house bill are in agribusiness - not farmers. They are only too eager to capitalize on their mistakes by further hamstringing small producers with frivolous regulations.

The stated reason for the bill is food safety. Food safety threats really drive the fear factor in the press and the general population. People like to be afraid.

[tapper]

If I am not mistaken there are already food safety standards in place in this country. Why arent they being enforced?
Politicians want to set more regulations in place that do not work. They know the more something doesn't work the more money they can get for it and yes most of this idea of thinking is fear driven. And I for one refuse to buy into fear tactics.

[Clan Delaney]

It's the waste that gets to me. Ask my employer what's the ONE thing over all others that drives me crazy and he'll tell you: doing the same job twice to achieve the same results. I understand what this bill is trying to do, I do - fix the problems that led to contaminated lettuce, tomatoes, peanuts in our food supply. But we already have the FDA. Why build something brand new to deal with a problem when you've already got something?

No, wait, don't answer that. I was just being rhetorical.

It feels like this. Imagine calling 911.

"Help! My house is on fire!"
"Very good, Sir. We'll get that bill started right away."
"What?!? Bill? What do you mean?"
"The bill to authorize the building of a new fire station, closer to your home."
"But we already have a fire station! It's just a mile away!"
"Yes, but this new station will be able to serve you better."

I guess it would be funny if it weren't so true.

I've got buckets to check.

[green4310]

Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2008 8:05:49 PM by SeekAndFind

If you wanted to turn the United States of America into a socialist country, what strategy would you adopt? Joseph Stalin, the world’s top communist from 1924 to 1953, is reputed to have advocated the following strategy to William Z. Foster, leader of the Communist Party U.S.A.: “Work for more government intervention and control of the business activities of the people. In this way the American people will accept Communism without knowing it.”

Stalin would be pleased with the trend in America since he dispensed that advice. He would be positively delighted with the recent partial nationalizations of the housing, mortgage, financial, and insurance industries during the Crash of 2008. He would be even more thrilled by the future prospects for socialism in America.

The Democrats seem to have found the perfect strategy to replace free markets with government control. Their game plan is now clear: to move incrementally but inexorably from capitalism (free markets) to socialism (government control of economic activity).

The first stage in that transition, the proverbial nose of the camel under the tent, was accomplished by earlier generations of politicians, primarily Democratic. It was to condition Americans to view government as a player, rather than a referee, in all sorts of previously private markets. That is, sell the voters on a government program for some worthy cause—nothing as radical as total government control, but simply as a supplementary aid in some important area of life, such as retirement, health care, housing, energy. Thus, Social Security was created to put a modest floor under Americans’ retirement income; Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to help poorer Americans afford homes; Medicare and Medicaid to help seniors and the poor afford medical care; the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. to insure bank deposits; the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp. to insure pensions, etc., etc., etc.

The second stage in creeping socialism is to keep expanding government programs. This is easy in a democracy. Understanding the political dynamic so pithily summarized by the great playwright (and socialist) George Bernard Shaw—“The government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul”—the politicians who want greater government control carry the day. The party of Bigger Government—the Democrats—has skillfully employed demagoguery against all who dare question the wisdom or long-term financial viability of such programs, shamelessly and unfairly denouncing them as heartless and uncaring. This Democratic and democratic pressure intimidates some Republicans to become “pragmatists” who acquiesce in fiscally unsustainable policies. The result has been that Congress has repeatedly increased the vote-buying benefits, while avoiding the prudent, but politically unpopular, steps of maintaining programs on a solid financial footing.

That brings us to the present. Today’s Democrats—some crypto-socialists, others not bashful about showing their socialist stripes—actually desire the fiscal mismanagement that bankrupts federal programs, because it precipitates stage three of their strategy: the crisis stage. During a crisis, the choice becomes whether to shut down the insolvent program, or to rescue the program since so many Americans have become dependent upon it. Few Republicans are willing to tell scared Americans that government can’t help them during an emergency (e.g., President Bush during the current crisis), and that gives rise to stage four.

The fourth stage of socialism on the installment plan has dawned in 2008. It is rescuing programs in the crisis stage by nationalizing them. You can choose to believe that Congress was taken by surprise by the looming bankruptcy of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but it wasn’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if Barney Frank and other leading Democrats, who successfully blocked earlier Republican attempts to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, uncorked champagne bottles when Uncle Sam became the largest mortgage holder and de facto landlord in the country by nationalizing the bankrupt mortgage giants. They will celebrate again when the federal Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation goes broke and Uncle Sam nationalizes private pensions. Ditto for when the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation some day runs out of funds and banks have to be nationalized.

Still looming in the future are the Big Three of precariously under-funded future liabilities: Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. The Democrats are playing a giant game of chicken as these three programs march inexorably toward insolvency—Medicare alone being under-funded by $36 trillion for the next 65 years. Democrats reject all attempts to reform these programs and put them on a sounder financial footing. When George Bush suggested private accounts as part of a possible reform, the Democrats went berserk. Being socialistic, they are as terrified of private property as Dracula is of a cross. We were given a peek of the future of Social Security in October when Congressman George Miller (D-CA) held hearings that included discussion of nationalizing Americans’ IRAs.

Like the frog who doesn’t realize it is being boiled until it is too late to jump out of the pot, at some point during the ongoing government takeover of Americans’ businesses and wealth, we could wake up in a new country. The U.S.A. could morph into the D.S.S.A., the Democratic Socialist States of America, with the Democrats entrenched in power, overseeing it all. That is their end game.

An interesting article I came across awhile back.
PURE HOG WASH , WASTE OF PRINT

[TapME]

the sheep have come to water

[Clan Delaney]

This is the part of moderator duties that I'd rather never have to exercise.

Please remember that Maple Trader is here as a source of information and a place to discuss all things maple. Differing opinions are welcome, nay, encouraged, where they pertain to what we do as producers - business or hobbyists. Yes, there are aspects of maple sugaring that will invariably be tied to politics, especially in the realm of regulations.

Please make every effort to keep discussions that tend toward the political, political for maple's sake, and not political for political's sake. There are hundreds of forums online for straight political discussion. Maple Trader is not one of them.

One of the rules (http://www.mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=5094) that we agree to here is to respect other members. You can disagree without being disrespectful, but some recent posts have come very close. Let's focus on what unites us... a roaring evaporator, boiling sap and that smell in the air that we wait eleven months of the year for.

[Jerome]

Lets us not forget that it was the deregulation/ignoring or the rules of the financial industry that lead os into the current fiscal crisis. It looks like what the government is trying to do is just get everyone on the same page hee before we have some sort of problem of the proportion as the fiscal crisis.

[3rdgen.maple]

I come to this forum to get away from the daily fustrations of life and to talk maple. It is bad enough that everytime you turn on the tv it is politics everytime you turn on the radio it is politics and now everytime you log on to the trader it is politics. Enough has been said lets move on and talk maple again shall we.

[mapleman3]

I think we had enough with this thread, I am closing it.

Thanks for the input guys I know this concerns us, if there is any further happenings we will post