steam pan question

[Grizz747]

Well, I tapped today in the rain and am hoping for the first boil on friday and/or saturday. I will be using 4 steam pans and my question is in transferring order. Once I get going, do I ladle #2 to #1, then #3 to #2 then the Back pan to # 3? Any Idea of what kind of evaporation rate to expect?

__________________________________________________ __
Scott
20 taps
4 steam pans?
Low on experience
High on Enthusiasm

[RileySugarbush]

i always went back to front, adding sap slowly to the back pan. I estimate four pans will give you 6 to 8gph. With a good grate, front panel to control air flow, and a good firebox shape forcing the combustion gasses up to the pans, then you get close to the 8. Add a blower, and you can get a few more gpm. This is with the pans dropped down in and hot sides.

[Groves]

Boiling is boiling. I don't think it matters unless you're using one of the pans as a preheater.

I used to keep my pans full, but now I keep 2 inches or less in them. They say that the less liquid that steam bubble has to pass through, the less energy it takes. You get more gph with a shallower level in the pan.

We just processed 50 gal of sap yesterday, and we did have a pan on top of the chimney for a preheater, but we ended up using pan #4 as one, too. We kept it full, and ladled from it to the other pans as needed.

[SeanD]

Grizz,

That's the right ladling idea. Doing that will allow you to draw off syrup as it is ready. You'll be moving things along pretty quickly though and you'll need to plan ahead. Nothing to panic about, but you want to stay ahead of the game.

Remember, when you draw your finished or almost finished syrup from your front pan, you can't empty it all the way out or it will scorch before you can put your ladle down. So, just plan backwards from your drawing off.

You'll want enough liquid/syrup in the last couple of pans right over the fire so that you can take out a certain amount leaving a safe couple of inches behind. So that means you want to steadily move larger amounts of sap toward the front as you get closer to a "ladle off".

On top of that you're losing 8 gallons per hour overall, so start out moving big amounts forward until you get a good rhythm going and you're comfortable with the pace and depths.

You're going to have a blast. Good luck!

Sean

[Groves]

Maybe it's best if you can tell us how much sap you'll be processing.

A gallon of syrup will not cover a steam pan with much depth.

For small producers (like me) we hardly expect to make more than a gallon or so in one firing.

So, to think that you'll have enough syrup ready to draw off (or dump off, for us steam pan guys) with enough left to leave in the pan without scorching is not reasonable.

Let's embrace our batch status.

We try to keep all pans boiling hard until we've boiled enough away that it all fits into all our pans plus our preheater. Then all in the pans. Then all in 3 pans, then 2, then one.

The process goes as fast as it can if we use all our pans. The only reason to go to one fewer pan is to keep the level above scared-to-scorch level in the pans. After we dump one, we fill it with a few inches of water before we put it back on the fire. I can't see ladling it all out to empty it. We want to keep the pan in place to keep the fire directed where we want it.

That's just us, though. If you're processing over 50 gal or so in one firing, then you'll already be frustrated at the time it takes to boil off 48.5 of those gallons using only 4 steam table pans.

[SeanD]

That's a good point about how much sap you have, though with twenty taps you should be good for 50-60 gallons of sap every 3-4 days.

Batches are definitely the way to go with smaller amounts to process. To keep 2 inches in each pan at start up you'll need at least 8 gallons just to light the fire. Each inch is about a gallon.

Two other big benefits I found with ladling over is that you never have to stand in mud and ice then put your hands on and lift out a pan with your face over a furnace and your hands full of boiling sugar. If there is an accident, you're done.

The other big advantage is you can shut down or stop anytime you need to. Just let it cool down, cover the pans with a piece of foil backed insulation or plywood, and you have an established gradient the next time you start up. If the pans get charred up, pour off into a bucket, clean the pan, then start up again.

I think it's safer and easier, but ultimately go with what you are most comfortable with and how much time and sap you have.

Sean

[Groves]

I agree with what SeanD says, but I'll add that even without making your pans a gradient, you can still at any point just shut down and it won't effect anything.

If you're running a consistent depth, then boiling is boiling, and if he's going to eventually end up in one pan anyway (because the total syrup will be 2 gal or less) then all you're doing with ladling is wasting energy and probably spilling some.

The flowing pan boys have a gradient so they can draw off finished syrup and make room in the pan for more sap. Their syrup spends less time in the pan, and is lighter as a result.

We're batch guys not because we love dark syrup, but because our syrup amounts are so small that it's really hard to have multiple "batches" drawn off.

Working around blazing fire does warrant your rapt attention, but the only time we're lifting these pans is when they're just too shallow to risk scorching, so we're only lifting them when they have an inch or so in them, and that's not nearly the dangerous animal as a full pan of boiling sugar. It's pretty manageable weight-wise, and you're always just dumping it into an adjacent pan. Unless, of course, you're at the very end, and then into a cold pan or container.

[emo]

I use 3 trays to boil with. I load about 1-1/2 to 2 inches in each tray to start, takes about 5 gallons. I keep adding sap to tray 1 as it never quite gets to a boil. Trays 2 and boil nicely. I add sap to tray 3 from tray 2 and add from tray 1 to tray 2 using a standard soup ladle from the kitchen. Keep the sap deep enough to cover the ladle, by 1/4 - 1/2 inch, when the ladle is on the bottom of the tray so the level does not get too low. I don't have forced into the block arch, but with a sheet metal door to cover the front, with an air slot, I can boil around 4 gph, depends on how well I keep the fire going.

When I ramp down for the night or end of sap, I empty tray 1 into tray 2, then refill tray 1 with water, to keep the heat in the arch. I put about 3 gallons of water into the tray. I do the same for tray 2 when trays 2 and 3 get low. When I empty into tray 3, I move tray 3 to the middle of the arch and set tray 2 back in where tray 3 was, filled with water. You can add about 1/2 inch of water to the trays before you put them back, as they will scortch real quick at that heat level. I keep enough fire to just keep tray 2 at a boil, then empty it in to a stock pot when it gets low or close to done. I use a refactometer to check sugar level and can get to about 60% sugar on the fire, if I'm careful.

[NedL]

Hi There,

I use 4" trays dropped into a block arch. I actually fill the pans almost to the top. With the pans dropped into the arch the sides are getting heat also and I find my rates get much higher taking advantage of that heat. Just my experience. Just have to be careful as you get closer to syrup for boilover, that's when my levels get lower.

I ladle from the back to the front. After having the fire going for about an hour I'll have 3 pans boiling. As I'm runnig out of sap I put water into the empty pans. When it is close to finishing I pour water on the fire and drag the front pan off the fire a little. In a couple of minutes, I'm able to pull the pan off the arch(with gloves) and dump it into my finishing pan and finish it on the stove.

Someone had a good suggestion on this site, to poke holes in the corners of the pans so you could attach a coat hanger or wire and make it easier to pull the pan off at the end.

[Grizz747]

Thanks for all of the info. A friend and I are doing this and we are both excited. Looks like I'm in for a fun weekend. Collected sap and had about 10 gallons today from 20 taps. Some trees produced great others not so great. Any reason? I am going to tap a few more tomorrow. I would like to have about 40-50 gallons for the weekend boil. Can anyone estimate how many pallets will I need per gallon of syrup? Block arch, door, forced air and 8'stack.

[KenWP]

They estimate one cord of wood will make between 15 and 30 gallons of syrup more or less in a real evaporator. So sort of guess from there.

[Grizz747]

I got the new pans today. Before my boil how should I clean them? Vinegar?

[Brent]

when in doubt .... clean

when not in doubt .... clean anyway.