Help! Why can't I boil

[argo76]

can someone check out my set-up and tell me why I can't boil. I posted some pictures. http://picasaweb.google.com/argo76/MapleSyrupBoil?feat=directlink The only thing i can figure is that the surface of the stove is a bit warped and I'm not getting good heat transfer. I brought the sap to a boil before i put it on the stove. I am at a loss. I got 20 gallons of sap to day and could not boil it off

[mapleack]

Hi Argo76, I'm always glad to see more people get into sugaring, and you've come to the right place to learn alot about making syrup. You guessed it when you questioned heat transfer being the problem. It's not just the fact that the steel on the stove is warped, its the fact that its there at all. For good enough heat transfer to boil the sap, you need whatever pan or pot the sap is in to be in direct contact with the flame. Alot of people here on mapletrader have homemade rigs similar to yours that use stainless food warming pans that sit in the top of barrel stoves. To get good heat transfer you'd need to cut holes in the steel on top of your stove the right size for the warming pans or pots to set down in, and be in direct contact with the fire. One more thing would be to maybe split you wood even smaller, you aren't going for wood efficiency, but the hottest fire possible. Good luck, look at some threads in the homemade equipment section and the evaporator section, you'll find some pictures of rigs that are similar to yours.

[KenWP]

You could also try to put a grate in the bottom also to improve the burning of the wood. Sitting in its own ashes makes it hard for air to get to the wood towards the back of the stove. It would also bring the flames up closer to the top. I would cut holes in the top to set the pans down into the flames also. Would ruin the coating on the pans you are useing fairly quickley unlike useing simple SS pots or pans.

[BarrelBoiler]

hi after looking at your pics, i would try the food warming pans wiht a thought toward a divided flat pan next year. i have had enamal melt on a really!!! hot fire!
also try
1.smaller split wood you want a hot fire
2.get a grate, last year i went to mmy local "we have everything" hardware store and bought a cheep fireplace grate and carefully!! broke it to fit,lasted the season
3.firebrick, with the grate build a "firebox" to fit your wood and then fill the backup with unsalted sand ,crushed rock, vermiculite insulation(will need brick over it to hold it down) aways to get the fire running under what ever you use for pans. the brick will help hold in the heat. i used the fireplace brick 2.5x4x9in mine they were inexpensive.

whatever you do this year you have a good start on a barrel evaporator check out what some of the others have done with their barrels and you'll be boiling away like crazy

I tried to load some pic but they were to big. i had an oval wood heater that i used last year. I used brick to line and make the firebox smaller and make the path to the stack as close tothe top as possible. i had to cut my wood in half 6-8 inches. the pan was 12x24 inches with 3-4 inches hanging over the edge on both sides. I left the cover on but with the small wood and intense fire i could get the whole pan going. long post sorry

[jtthibodeau]

Great advice, Guys. That should give you a start on gaining efficiency. Let us know how it works out, argo76.

[Dill]

To echo what other's have said. Get the fire on the pans. If those pots are dear to the cook in the family. Go to a resturant supply house and pick up some steam tray pans. You might be able to find used ones for real cheap. Then insulate, insulate, insulate. I can't stress this enough. You want as much heat as possible going to the pans and not out the sides. Fire brick is the best, but red brick, sand, broken cement blocks will all work.

[dano2840]

you need to get the logs right up against that plate that your pans sit on, maybe put a damper in your stack to keep the heat from going up the pipe, if i could boil sap hard on a plate (it had holes in it every inch, it was a grill surface for an out door bbq) if your fires hot enough and you mound up some ash at the bottom of your stove pipe and parshally cut it off to keep the heat in you should be able to boil just fine

[03weim]

if you cant get the ss pans you can go to a party store like (Iparty) and get the cheap foil steam away pans to run on top of the rig the way you have it now but like others said you need a hotter fire and it to be closer to the top. If you use the foil pans it will not boil like having the ss pans on the fire but it will work better than your current pans

[RileySugarbush]

By all means get only one layer of metal between the fire and your sap. The foil idea will be a small improvement because it will conform to the warped stove top, but you will do 10 times better with direct exposure to the heat.

[argo76]

You guys are awesome. Thanks for the help. I found some s.s. warming pans although there not in hand yet and I found a 55g metal drum i'll be cutting up tonight. I'll post pics when I get a chance. Thanks again

[RileySugarbush]

You may be better off with a quick concrete block arch. The steam table pans can sit right down between the blocks. Quick and easy to build. The blocks will last a season or two, or much longer if you line them with firebrick.

As many or more sugarers have started that way as with the barrel stoves.

There are many photos of these on the site.

Either way will work well....

[BarrelBoiler]

argo, smoewhere in all these posts recently there was a decussion of table pans and scorching the sides as the sap levels went down maybe someone can guide on how to find these. if you have the equipment (welder and /or torch) you just might be able to tinker on the stove in the pics save that barrel for when the saps not over flowing:) proabably need toput some flat bar around the hole tohelp hold the pan

just a thought

have fun

[Johnny Cuervo]

I would put a damper in the stack; just keep it open enough not to get smoke in the room.

[birdmancf]

Hey Argo,

Have fun taking these first steps, you'll want to keep up'ing the ante as everyone has noted. My first rig last year is a barrel with a side cut open with a sabre saw and opened out to accept the steam pans dropping in. There is a pix attached. Woked great last year, but scorching was an issue on the pans because of the depth I dropped them in. It didn't affect the end product negatively but I sure didn't make any grade A. A damper is a must in the stove pipe because without the heat goes straight up the flue w/o tickling enough of the pans.
This year I've raised the pans so they are only 1-2" deep into the barrel and I'll be wrapping the edge of the cut with stove gasket rope to keep the flames in the stove. My pans are actually supported underneath by hardware store angle iron, the kind thats pre-drilled and slotted. I have a couple of carraige attached and the bolt ends sticking up through the top of the rig . I can level the pans by turning the nuts. I am also going all out on the firebricking, putting in a grate, and adding extra air under the grate and in the combutstion chamber. I made a mock up on Google sketch up to figure out the dimensions of the pieces. See second pix
Have fun, and keep checking back and letting the group know how it's going. Still waiting for sap here in North central Maine.

[Brent]

You've got a lot of good advice here but only one post mentioned your firewood so I thought I should emphasize a bit that the wood in your picture is much to big.

For a fast hot burning fire you want long skinny sticks. Seems the rule of thumb is that you should split down to about the size of your wrist. Almost like burning kindling all day. It will be a LOT hotter.