Shutting Down

[Amber Gold]

What's the most efficient way to shut down without creating more work for yourself and running it full bore for as long as possible.?

My thought is when the head tank runs out shut the blower off and pull all wood out, and maybe flood the syrup pan to 1.5". Go back in a hour to check on it. My flue pan runs at 1.75" and the syrup pan at 1" normally. I wouldn't think the flue pan would evaporate off 1.75" during cool down.

Thoughts?? If someone knows of a good thread which discusses this please point me in that direction...I looked and didn't find one.

[gator330]

I shut down yesterday at 6:00 filled the pan up 4-5 inches. Was a good fire at the time, bed of hot cole. Went back at 8:00 the fire was just out and the pan had 1/2 an inch in it. I thought that was to close for me. There was no pulling the fire out. My thought is to be shure you have plenty of sap to let it burn out and leave the pans sweet. For me I think I need 20 gallons of sap to let the fire burn out. Just need to figure it out. I see a guy who has a sight tube on his head tank. It has a mark for last fire. when the sap gets there there done. Just let it run out with the Fire.

[Dill]

Is it alright to leave sap in the flues over night when its going to get cold? I've only boiled on flat pans.

[cncaboose]

I save a pile of firewood no bigger than an inch for when I near shutdown. When my feed tank gets to about 25 gallons I switch to the little wood and then put in no more wood when I get to about 10-15 gallons of sap left. This way the fire stays hot til near the end and is gone in a few minutes. I have no blower to turn on or off.

[Amber Gold]

I have a blower so there isn't much, if any, of a coal base so the heats gone pretty quick, it's just the fire brick that's still hot. If the flues were to be exposed due to residual evaporation, I'm guessing it'd be hours later, would anything happen to the pan?

Alden, I'm going to light a fire in mine tonight to bring the temp. back up. Just starting to get a layer of ice on there. Probably going to do that every night with the temps this week. Now that I think of it I should go pull my floats off so they don't freeze up.

[fred]

on my 6 x 16 with a steamaway and a 1500 gal tank -wood fired .i boiled to 3" of sap in the tank and by the time it cooled off all would be empty and 1 to 1 1/2" in the evaporator

[maple flats]

On my 3x8 wood fired I have a site tube in my feed line to read level of sap in the feed tank. I tried over time seeing how much was good to leave at shutdown I started at 40 gal the first season, too much. Over time I ended up with 18 gal in tank was just right. Yours may vary some. To get the mark I just started high and worked to less and less. When I got my mark where it was good I actually filled the tank from empty by hand until I got to the mark to truly know what it was. Now when my feed tank level reaches 18 gal, I stop feeding the fire. I clean up the sugarhouse. After several minutes I close the draft door, remove the float and let the remaining sap into the flue pan to get hot enough to kill any micro organisims. I still leave the front pan float in place. When everything is done I remove the front float the raise that about 1/2" and I close the valve between the two. The next time I return everything is very close to my desired depth the start up. I add sap to my feed tank, install floats and light the fire.( I use no kindling, just lay the fire about 2/3 full and use my weed burner torch which runs on a 20# propane tank and burns at about 300,000 btu. This lights it fast and I am off to the races again. I have never burned a weed with it, I just have it to light the evaporator

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Best thing is experiment with it over time like Dave has and you will get to the point of what works best and is the most efficient. Everybody does things a little different and has different techniques but as Dave mentioned, the best thing is to get it fine tuned to the point that you fire when you have a certain level left in your tank and it runs out at the right time. As mentioned, using smaller wood the last fire or two makes it burn out quicker.

Don't want to have to be shoveling fire out if you don't have too. Kinda dangerous, makes a mess and you could catch something outside on fire. If anything, be a little more conservative starting out and worse case is that you start up next boil with 3 inches in your pan.

[Amber Gold]

I figured some experimenting would be involved...trying to reduce the trial and error.

I was a little too conservative and had 3" in my flue pan and 2.5" in my syrup. It's going to be coooold this week so I'm draining everything out and will just add it back in to the desired level

[Haynes Forest Products]

Guys you need to cover the flue pipes to keep the heat in the arch in the cold weather

[briduhunt]

My questions is weather to leave sap in the pans overnight and maybe even a few days between boils. Around here we have an extended forecast of temps only in the mid 20's till this Thurs. I have soldered drop flue pans and my concern is the soup freezing in the pans. Will this do any damage to my pans? I can blanket them but not sure that will keep the sap from freezing in the pans. I did drain off the pans this Sat. night but that is not easy as I had a hard time removing the back sap pan from the evaporator as it was not to light. If there is a better way to do this I would be grateful for any info.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Sounds like you dont have a flue pan drain. Do you have power in the sap shack? I would Either cover the pans and flue stack put heat in the arch or pump the pans out. You can get a pump for under $50 on Ebay and get some dedicated buckets just for that. 1 for flue pan 1 for syrup pan.
I coverd my old pans with a sheet of foil backed foam insulation. Foil faces down keeps in the heat and stays clean.

[3% Solution]

briduhunt,
I'm with Dave on the shutdown.
Once you get it your good to go.
Now as far as what to do at night and extended times.
Once I start, the pan always have liquid in them, just leave it in, that's your gradient, that's what you made during your first boil and you don't want to start over.
Now, if it's going to be cold for a short time (like this week) I'll make sure there is a little bit more sap in the pans, that way everyother day I can go out and start a very small fire in the firebox so the ice won't damage the flues.
Now, if I start getting close to not having enough sap in the pans I'll drain then and hold everything separate and add it back later.
The syrup pan is usually so sweet it just gets slushy.
Again, as was said earlier, it's just the way I do it.

[3% Solution]

Haynes,
I use my sap pump that I pump the sap into the head tank.
About 6' of hose with a short piece of copper tubing so I can get into the bottom of the flues and we'r good!
Forgot that point.

Dave

[tuckermtn]

okay , playing devils advocate here...we have left frozen sap in our flu pans for a week or more in past seasons with no damage- the way I understand it, when water and sap freeze, it needs to expand. If it doesn't have any room to expand, then it breaks something. With my flu pan (raised flu Grimm) , and I suspect most flu pans, its open to the air - nothing boxed up or closed off- so the frozen sap can expand up when it frozen. The only thing I worry about is the valves between the flu pan and the syrup pan getting some sap in there, freezing, and blowing a seal..but so far so good...

am I missing something?

-Eric

[Russell Lampron]

On raised flue pans you don't have to worry too much. A drop flue pan can be damaged when the ice expands.

[Amber Gold]

Eric, I think you’re right, that everything will expand upwards…but I’d hate to be wrong. I erred on the side of caution and pulled everything out. I have a busy week at work with late nights and don’t want to worry about everything freezing. I dumped the flue pan into a 100 gallon stock tank…trying to figure out how I’m going to heat it up if it freezes solid…or will it? We’re looking at some pretty cold days/nights this week. The valves also concerned me. I think one of them did freeze up and is now leaking…pretty sure it wasn’t leaking before and I now have a frozen puddle under the left-side valve. Is there someplace I can go to get a rebuild kit for the gate valves?

[tuckermtn]

Josh- I wouldn't even know what to call that type of valve...its a funky set up b/c its inlet is on the side, and exit on the bottom- and I think it changes pipe size in the process...If I had a photo I bet Haynes could figure it our....

[Jim Brown]

Guys here is our solution to the freeze problem. we bought a small( about 8 inches square) electric heater. It sits on the grates just inside the fire box doors.Turned on to the medium setting last night,the outside temp was down to 7 here this morning and the temp on the evapoator said 53 degrees.We have used this for a couple of years and it worked good for these time when the temp is doing this up and down drastic swings stuff. Keeps from draining the rig and then figuring how you are going to get the frozen stuff out of the barrel or drum you put it in !

Jim

[Stickey]

By Tuckers description I'd call it a 90 degree reducing valve. I don't even know if such a thing exists... Maybe its a ball valve with 90 degree and reducing fittings? You can get them at homedepot or lowes although they'd probably only have copper/brass and you probably want stainless, if it exists. In that case a plumbing supply house-Goulet pipe or granite group. I am looking at a half inch apollo ball valve, but I don't see how it could be re built. Probably not even close to what you guys are talking about, so I'll Zipit.

[danno]

I've never tried it, but I know some put a lit light bulb or two on the grates to keep sap from freezing solid.

I used to let sap freeze hard in my old english tin pans - and they never split. Mind you, I am not endorsing this.

Now how about that 1200 gallons of frozen sap I have sitting in my tanks:)

[Haynes Forest Products]

TuckerMTN: you give to much credit I do love Valves. Im still waiting to hear from the person thats looking to rebuild thier valve was going threw my parts bin and have some ball valve seals. If you ever looked at a pipe/valve that broke from freezing the first thing liquid doees when it freezes is it expands in all directions and when that cant happen it pushes into a void or weak area. "IF" the liquid in your pans freezes and freezes solid it will first expand in ALL directions and then move to the point of least resistance BUT only after it cant expand any more. I have had other type of pans warp and not break . having solderd pans verses tig welded pans and have slight expansion due to freezing will be more damaging to solderd verses tig.
Wecall them milk house heaters the ones with the thermostat just to keep thing warm but not hot I use them in the evap room as a percaution.

[Stickey]

Unzipping it for just a second. Stainless ball valves exist!!! Medical grade even!! OK, shutting back up now.

[michelle32]

I was thinking that a propane heater like the ones they use for ice fishing. No elec. in sap house. Set it on low in the arch. Should be good for the night and they go for about 14 hours.

[VtSugarhouse]

I might be all wet here, but what is the reasoning for keeping the sap from freezing during the night? Other than to help you make dark syrup. Naturally you can't just leave the sap in the evaporator for days on end at sub zero weather with out firing it up.
I have only been making syrup for 40 odd years and I must have missed this class.

Let me know

[Dave Y]

I agree with you VTSugarhouse. I leave my pans full of consentrate. they where froze almost soild yesterday.two day in a row of single digit temps. It just took a little while to thaw.

[Brian Ryther]

During cold snaps I put a 200 watt bulb in the fire box. That usualy keeps the sap from freezing. Last week the bulb blew and the pans froze solid for days on end. Not a problem. Now I think I am wasting eletricity with the light. I have never been able to keep the sap in the foat boxes from not freezing anyway.

[tappin&sappin]

I've always put a 200w bulb in the arch and a 200w bulb on the other end behind the flues. Works well. The preheater pan freezes, but other than that things keep thawed out.

Leave it in your pans to freeze? I don't know. Sure seems like you might have trouble w/ joints coming loose on a drop flue.

But if the veterans say they don't have a problem, then it must be okay. I've only got 5 yrs into this game.

- Jake