I know a maple...

[bomofish]

Hey im still a rookie at sugaring, and my friend asked me what if i tap a red or anyother kind of maple will it drip sap? if so is that sap collected just useless cause it dosnt have the sugar content like the sugar maples. I know i can pick out a maple but i guess they all look the same to me when theres no leaves on them.

If you can give me some tips that would be great thanks alot

[RileySugarbush]

Any maple will work, even box elders. Sugars have more concentrated sap, Reds are good too.

[bomofish]

ok so i dont have to get worried if i didnt tap a sugar maple i feel better now thanks

[buxtonboiler]

Just don't do like I did. My first year (2008), I decided at the last minute to try sugaring. Trying to ID trees without leaves is tricky, I actually did tap one oak. Sap didn't look right though so I dumped it and pulled the tap. Found out in the spring it was an oak. I went around when the leaves came out and marked the maples with orange construction tape.

[gator330]

Someone around there can Id. a maple with there eyes closed. Find that person and have them take a walk with you. After he/she showes you a few you'll be able to pick them out at 65mph from the interstate. Some take on a diffrent look then others depending on the woods. I swear I have 6 differnt kinds of maples in my woods. All sugars with a differnt look to them. Bark type may vary some from tree to tree. Still a sugar maple, ok so one was a hickory once. That tree almost got it again this year! Any way in time they stand right out. Keep an eye out, you'll find more then you thought you had.

[Toblerone]

I heard not to mix box elder sap with maple sap. Also, I tapped a silver maple in my back yard and it made some really good syrup.

Regarding winter time tree identification, I've taught myself to do it fairly well (at least I think so). The key is to bring binoculars and look at the twigs and how they come off the main branch. If they are in an alternating pattern, then it is definitely NOT a maple. If any of them are in an opposite pattern (some will look alternate but only because the twig broke or didn't develop) it can only be 1 of four trees: 1) Buckeye or horsechestnut, 2) Dogwood, 3) Ash, or 4) Maple.

Number 1 and 2 can be easily ruled out if you know you don't have any.. and Buckeyes have thick twigs and are very droopy. So then you only have to determine between Ash or Maple. It's very easy to tell on larger trees since an Ash will have a rigid diamond-like shape bark that is very tight to the tree. Maples will have less of a pattern, not so tightly held bark. On bigger maples, the bark will appear to be peeling or shaggy.

Hope this was helpful. Good luck.
Dave

[C.Wilcox]

Toblerone-

I had heard not to mix box elder and maple sap as well, but no one really knew why. Seeing as how no one had a real strong reason not to I went ahead and did so. I've been doing it for several years now and haven't noticed any real negative effects. Box elder syrup does taste stronger than maple (more like a mix of honey and molasses) and can overwhelm the maple flavor so that's maybe why they say not to mix them. I also seem to get a quite a bit of nitre in my syrup, but that's more likely due to my crude boiling operation than anything else. Did anyone give you a specific reason not to mix them?

[KenWP]

I have silvers,reds and box elders plus a few sugar maples. I was planning on adding it toghther. Unless my box elders produce enough to make it worth while the separate them. I have a source for a lot of sugar maples but its a half mile through the bush to haul sap by hand so its not really a good idea right now to tap them.

[RileySugarbush]

The box elders are likely not worth the trouble. Very low sugar content.

[C.Wilcox]

KenWP-

If you've got plenty of silvers, reds, and sugar maples I would pass on the box elders. I have very limited trees to tap so I use what I have. Box elder sap does have a fairly low sugar content and I can tell you from personal experience that you'll be boiling forever, but my trees make up for the low sugar content with the large amount of sap they produce every spring.

Corey

[KenWP]

I did not know about this group of sugars that I found this last week so I will try and tap a few of them instead. There are some really big trees in the group that should make up for not useing my box elders. I grew up in western Canada and the only maples there are the box elders they planted for wind breaks and a few people out there tap them. I never really knew it took so much sap to get any where untill I moved here and got started on this project.

[Toblerone]

C.Wilcox,

Did anyone give you a specific reason not to mix them?

I think it was just because of the off flavor. Can you still, technically, call it 100% pure maple syrup if you use box elder? I know they're in the same family, acer, but I don't know. Would the flavor difference push it to grade B? I would love to try some at some point. If we had any box elders on our property I would try it, but I don't think we do.

Dave

[KenWP]

They actually don't call them box elders up here. They call them Manitoba maples.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dont you just love the doubble speak Out here in Colorado we have ASPEN trees $75.00 for a clump of them 15 ft high. In Wisconsin we call them Poplars and you cant kill the #%$#^%$%#s things

[KenWP]

And aspen was all we had for firewood in the west and I came east and found all these really neat huge trees to cut down with a 12 inch chain saw. Haynes where do you actually live.

[C.Wilcox]

I don't sell my syrup, but if I did I wouldn't feel right calling it 100% maple syrup. The flavor is definitely different and I think anyone who had ever tasted true maple syrup would notice right away.

Toblerone- box elder is pretty common near Columbus. If you've got any low-lying areas near a creek or wetland you'll probably find some.

[Haynes Forest Products]

KenWP: I was born and raised In Chi town spent all my summers in a tent in Door County Wisc live up there a few years and moved to Denver/Parker in 79 go back every year for Maple Syrup and the 4th of July.

[Toblerone]

C.Wilcox,

Yeah, I see them all over the place when I go hiking, or walk the neighborhoods, but for some reason haven't seen one on the property where I tap. The older-growth areas are all maples and ash, with a few hickory and ironwoods. The newer areas are mostly oak and hickory. I'll have to walk the area near the creek at the back of the property during the summertime.

What volume of sap can you get from box elder? And any idea what the sugar content is?

Dave

[cncaboose]

I tap 2 boxelders in my yard as part of our operation and their production is below average, still enough to tap, and with 2-3% sugar. I will say I have taken some flak for tapping these right out in front of my house on a main road from my farm clients who didn't know boxelder is a maple and thought I was nuts.

[Jerome]

And then there is birch. something I have always wanted to try.

[KenWP]

I have lots of yellow birch around here. I might get time to try them also. I have very few sweet birchs and some paper birches also. It is suposed to get very thick and dark because it takes 100 gallons to make one gallon of syrup.

[C.Wilcox]

Toblerone- I didn't have a hydrometer until this year so I'm not sure what the sugar content is for my trees. I was surprised to hear that sap production for some was below average. It could be that I don't have any other reference and so I think I'm doing better than I really am? I can say that I've had some trees that overfilled a 5 gallon pail between Fri. evening and Sunday evening. I'll record some numbers this spring and see how they stack up.

cncaboose- I've had to explain it to quite a few people too. Mostly they just laugh and shake their head. I try to use it as an attempt to get access to better trees. "If you'd let me tap your maples I wouldn't have to embarass myself like this."

[KenWP]

I was just on the phone with a fellow and he asked what I was doing to keep busy and when I told him I was getting ready to tap maples he offered me between 50 and a hundred on his place to tap as long as he could have some syrup. I will have to think on that one very hard. And they are close to the road also.

[bomofish]

how do you tell a box elder??

[Toblerone]

I'm not sure about wintertime identification, but in the summer it has a distinctive 3-5 leaflet compound leaf. The only maple with a compound leaf. Saplings are often confused with poison ivy due to the 3-leaflets.

See http://www.cnr.vt.edu/DENDRO/DENDROLOGY/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=3

[KenWP]

I went around this summer and taped all the maples on my place and can find those by sight. But after looking at maples all summer I can find them driving down the road almost. I still have to check at the base as some trees look like maples across the feild but up close are yellow birchs. They have the same up sweeping branches as the maples do.

[C.Wilcox]

bomofish- In the winter you have to focus on the twigs, buds, and overall shape of the tree. The description in the link that Toblerone attached should help. Box elders often have short main trunks that split into two or three large branches that create a very large crown.

[hholt]

Box elders (aka Ash Leaf Maple) are pretty easy to identify in the winter by looking at the young twigs from last year's growth which are a very distinctive green.

I tapped them a couple of years ago and the first syrup of the season tasted like butterscotch and within a few weeks the finished product got very dark and strong. I use silver maples now, and their sap runs about 2% sugar and the flavor is first rate.

[KenWP]

Okay need to know something. I am tapping a couple of boxelders and its the only trees running. The sap tastes sort of woody with a after tase is this normal. Does the tase cook out of the sap.

[C.Wilcox]

Ken,

Unless the flavor you describe is really, really strong that sounds about right. It tends to smell a bit more woody when you cook it also. The final product will taste more like a mixture of honey and molasses, in my opinion. Like hholt said earlier, as the season progresses the syrup you make from it will get really dark.

[KenWP]

Thanks. I will keep tapping them for a while and since I have to freeze the sap try and keep it seperate and cook it and some other maple sap in one batch.

[C.Wilcox]

KenWP- How's your box elder experiment coming along? Have you had a chance to try boiling some sap yet or has it not warmed up enough for them to start flowing?

[KenWP]

My boxelders are running not bad. I only have 6 big enough to tap but one if huge so has 4 taps on it and took a while to thaw out but it runs rather well now. I so far have been adding the sap to the others as there really is not to much of it right now. It improved in flavour and sweetness as time went by. Looks like starting today I should get a little better runs from most of my maples.