first time tapping... check out pics of gear!

[WoodButcher]

hey guys, boy am i glad i trampled onto this forum!
well, this is my first year tapping and have done a good amount of reading and feel i am ready to try and make my first 2 gallons of syrup!

heres my situation:

I have a large steel pot thats 23" in diameter and 10" deep for boiling.

i will be using 15-20 'knock around' buckets on sugars in my back yard. i bought 20 buckets with lids and spiles for 50$ . i thought it was a good deal .

anyways, the spiles are a bit rusty but the buckets are ok and will hold the weight. i cleaned them all out with water, bleach and dish soap. check out pics below to see what you think of this minimal operation (be gentle :) ).

i plan on placing 6 cinder blocks in a 2/3 circle , 2 blocks high and steam it up with this pot in the pic. i need more ideas for the hearth setup, so i guess ill start by searching the site. i have a ton of maple , hickory and cherry to use for fuel.

the biggest concern i have is i want to collect 50 gallons first before boiling the first time. i figured if i got a couple brand new plastic garbage cans and put them on the south side of the house (no sunlight) the sap would be ok .

My questions is... for how long? i dont want the sap to spoil, but i want to make 2 gallons of syrup and only boil it up on 2 weekends .
if i tap this tueday, with 15 buckets on healthy sugars, roughly how long will it take to get 50 gallons?
i read that one tree can make about 7 gallons per season, so if i start this week, whats your guess. im in Northeast Ohio.

i know the sooner out of the tree to boiling, the better. but i dont have time to tend to a fire all day, unless its a weekend. i figure i can boil 50gal on one weekend when i have my 1st 50 and then boil another 50 later in season.

how long will it take to boil down in this 23" diameter 10" deep pan?


thanks in advance for your help! i know, too many Qs .
i hope my equipment will work!

[ericjeeper]

The All mighty weather God controls sap flow.
But laws of physics are going to control how much sap you can boil off on that small pot. If I was you when I got 15-20 gallons of sap I would be firing that pan up. I am guessing around 2-3 gallons per hour will be all that pot will reduce.I may be wrong as I am far from an expert. The best advice I can find is to invite a friend over and get them interested (that way you will have company). Good luck and happy sugaring

[danno]

"how long will it take to boil down in this 23" diameter 10" deep pan?"

A long time!

I agree - 2 to 3 gallons/hour.

I started exactly the same as you. After my first boil, I went out and bought 2 more of those pans from Loews and tripled the size of the "arch". Boiling 3 of those pans full with sap (who knew you were supposed to keep the pans shallow), I could boil about 50 gallons of sap in about 8 hours. Syrup was dark but darn tasty.

Also used to store sap in 35 gallon plastic garbage cans buried in the snow all week.

Welcome to the Trader!

[WoodButcher]

hmmm . . . well thank god i posted then, i would have been there 20hrs for one gal of syrup!

well, can you think of anything else i could use to burn sap in?
i got this sap pan from my uncle. i have no idea where its from .
i have the room to use anything and have enough wood. ide like to have one of those 5' long stainless troughs people use on here! wish i had a tig wleder and scrap laying arund !
im assuming i can only put about 4" of sap in this bad boy at one time eh? then when it boils and reduces to 2" deep add more sap?


thanks! cant wait!

[The Butcher]

Instead of waiting to it gets that low and then adding more....

get a metal bucket (like one that they sell popcorn in at Christmas) and put a SMALL nail hole on the side at the base. Find a way to rest it on the side of your pan. Keep the nail in if it comes out faster than you want.

This will keep a constant flow or dribble of sap going into your pan without killing the boil.

I would highly recomend that you read backyard sugarin. you can pick it up for like 10 bucks at amazon and it will tell you everything you need to know

[Clan Delaney]

Well, you can burn sap in anything (me- enamel pot, 4 years ago, then again last year) but if you're looking for a cheap something to boil it in and hopefully not burn it :) , pick up some stainless steel water table pans from any restaurant supply company.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I would set that up on some big old rocks and fill it with sap and build the best fire you can all around it and keep the sap coming. Make a party out of it and stop adding sap 1 hr before your going to quit. Keep the hose handy and shut the fire down when your close. you will know when your getting close. Finish on the stove and go by your gut instints.
I you will have more fun and will learn more in the 5 hrs doing this and make more mental improvments on the rig than any 10 of us could tell you.

[WoodButcher]

ive heard 1.5" all the way to up to 3" ... if i were drilling 18" sugars , how far should the hole be? 2" from the outside surface? i know your supposed to go deeper when the tree gets bigger, but most of mine are 18-24" . thanks

[Father & Son]

Woodbutcher,
Check with Richard's Maple in Chardon, or Jim Cermak in Middlefield www.sugarbushcreek.com. They are both maple equipment dealers, they might have some old but usable pans you could put on that block arch that might give you a little better boil rate and if they already had a valve in them the syrup would be alot easier to handle. Just a thought.

Jim

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Wood butcher,
The tap hole should be about 1 and 1/2 inches into the wood. Some trees have much thicker bark than others so take this into account. Research show some, but not much, increased production by drilling deeper and it adds to the tree injury.

[jason grossman]

wood butcher, if you need some info or help we are just around the corner on claridon troy rd. we will be tapping all day tomorrow. if you are interseted just call my number on our website we should be around! we are always willing to help a newbie!! jason

[WoodButcher]

thanks for all the help!

FATHER AND SON , i was just at richards maple 2 hours ago. bought a hydrometer from her . she said she has an old evap with a place to throw firewood in it, but its 800$ .... so ill pass until next year. i want to keep the equipment light until next year. maybe pick up a deal in the off season.

JASON , i would if i could get out of work! thanks for the offer! wish i could find a evap pan quick. well , i am a wine consultant and i deal with quite a few restaraunts so i can see if they have some gear to give me.

THOMPSON , 1.5" is what ill stick with . unless the sugar maple is a little more furrowed than normal. i guess my spiles will go in just as far as other styles eh?

i did get an anti foam bottle, but im sure i dont need it. the gentleman was in the store and raved on how great it is when you put a couple drops in there. oh well, it was 4 bucks and ill throw it in the freezer for storage. itll probably last me 5 years!

[tessiersfarm]

I have a friend that boiled on a pan like that. He cut the top out of a 55 gal drum and set the pan a little off set to the front so the back had about 2" gap which acted like a chimney. He then cut a door out of the front with 2 house door hinges and a little turn catch. I don't know how long it took him to make a gallon but I'm thinking the 2-3 gal per hour is pretty close.

Good luck and if you could come up with a couple of 12"x20"x6" steam table pans they will work great on a block arch.

[johnallin]

wood butcher,
I also started with a broiling pan in the woods and also used a coffee can with a hole to let sap drip in, i used a tooth pick to adjust the drip.

If done right it will replace what is steaming off and keep level in the pan the same. It will save you a lot of time trying to get a boil up again as pouring raw sap into the pan in any quantity will stop you cold.

Be prepared to spend lots of time watching water boil... and be sure you have some kind of thermometer that will read 218-219° in increments that you can see. Once that stuff takes off it's all over.

Good luck, my bet is you'll be back at Richard's before your second boil looking at their used pan. wink wink

[WoodButcher]

so the synopsis is to take this pot i have , put 4" deep of sap in it , get it to a boil, have a dripper can drip sap in like a dripping faucet, monitor depth and temp to make sure you have atleast 2" of sap in the pan and the temp of the sap stays around boiling but doesnt get too close to 219 ? then when your getting close to 219, take it off, dump it in my big 5gallon pasta pot and put it on my kitchen stove to get the correct brix level? sigh................

i know i know.... just experiment with it, and ill learn more in an hour than anything. . . just like to be a step ahead of diving in blindly .

does the above description sound pretty good?

TESSIER , that sounds like a great way to isolate the heat comin off the wood! ill try to find a drum but its doubtfull . i was thinking 6 total cinder blocks, in 3 total stacks of 2 blocks high, and i was going to bend them into a smiley face, then maybe line the inside of them with 30 gauge stainless to discourage heat from escaping from the holes in the cinder blocks. i NEED to find a gas grill grate big enough to hold this 23" pot though... any idea? and no, i dont have an old garage fridge i can take the shelving off of .:rolleyes:

[Sugarmaker]

WB,
There you go off improving things before you have boiled for the first time. I think you will make a fine sugar maker:)

Regards,
Chris
(about 60 miles northeast of you)

[WoodButcher]

WB,
\ I think you will make a fine sugar maker:)

\

well thank you . i hope so .

i have to tell you what... i am a huge believer in the internet as a source for research. i love forums.
i have been in a bunch for years :

bowhuntingnet forum
3wheeler forum
arborist forum
hearth forum
anthracite forum
jeep xj forum......

just to name a few.
but you guys by far have been the nicest around in only a few posts. a few of you around me have PMed me to come over and spy on your procedure to aide in my adventures.
thanks again.
any other advice on my recipe for disaster in the past post? :)

[WoodButcher]

btw , instead of using 6 cinder blocks in a half moon shape and resting my pot on that, would it be worth it to buy firebrick and build a U shape arch about 15" high of firebrick on the ground and rest the pot on that???

i have a firebrick source that will sell them for .50 cents a pop, the standard white ones. so i was thinking ide buy 75 of them for 30$ or so. what you think?

[Haynes Forest Products]

At .50 a pop why not buy him out and get the kids to build you a leggo arch. I think its a no brainer. They will get used down the road.

[WoodButcher]

all i needed to hear. ill snag em up . throw em at oncoming cars! (a joke)

[WoodButcher]

ok, tapped about 6 18"ers today ,dripping about once every 6 seconds, but drill went dead, so i stopped. ill tap the rest tomorrow AM.
check out my spiles... when i tap them in with light taps and it gets real snug i stop. but how do i know how hard to hit them in? im doing enough pressure to , say tap a nail in a half inch in a 2x4. . . not too hard. i leave about a half an inch from the outer bark to the spile's FIN on the top of it . thats with a 1.5" hole or so. to give you an idea, ill need some pliers to pull these buggers out.

as pros, how do you know when to STOP tapping it in?
thanks

also attached a phone pic i took today of my first taps of my career !!!

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Wood butcher,
It is actually a difficult question to answer. Experience will be your guide. I tap them in until the sound changes slightly. Tap, tap, tunk. If you must err, have them too loose. You can always hit them again to firm them up. Once you split the bark, you can't back up. I have driven spouts for 50 years and I will still make a few mistakes. I use a variety of bucket spouts. Some tin, some cast iron, some cast aluminum and they all pound differently. If you have them tight enough so that it will require pliers to remove them, that is probably a good start. When you get ready to remove them, find yourself an old fork tine about 8" long, insert it through the holes in the back of the spout and twist the spout in the hole. It will come right out.