Comparing a row crop tractor to a compact

[Pete S]

I was plowing snow last night with my well used Allis Chalmers WD45. (well that what I believe it to be, as some have said it's not as it's "mag" ignition,..........another thread sometime)

Anyway, I was using the back blade,...............in 10"+ of freshly fallen snow,...1000' driveway......had'er in second gear,..............and she hooked up and just bellered! That tractor is a pistol to manuver, but when the rubber meets the road,............look out, as the govenor snaps open and away she goes. (yes I am emotionally attached as we've spent MANY hours together moving snow, mowing and splitting wood)

So,........when my "economic" status imrpoves, Ma says I can look for another tractor.

I won't be looking for NEW, but slightly used would be a consideration.

I am interested in a compact "type" of tractor. MUST be 4x4 w/ a loader, and extra hydro hook-ups for log splittin', ag style tires.

So, when looking at these smaller 4x4 compact/utility tractors, what would be an "equivalant" horse power rating?

I've talked to guys that have the 20+hp units claiming they can do a TON of work. I believe them, but can they drag and lift logs, and PUSH, etc.

I am probably a ways off, but want to focus my efforts as there are TOO many choices!

Thanks!
Pete

[ericjeeper]

wd= about 45 horse. It is amazing what a modern tractor can do that a wd can't.. Such as pull a tiller. WD has first gear like 3rd gear on a new tractor.
As for running a wood splitter,. I would suggest a pto pump to be able to get a faster cylinder cycle speed. A lot of the small compact tractors have a small gpm pump.Just enough to swiftly run a loader or lift an implement.But none of these cylinders will add up to the flow needed to move a large splitter cylinder.
A friend of mine runs a 28gpm pump on his 60 horse deere just above idle and has an almost scary cycle time.
Stay clear of the Chinese tractors. Look for a US made.. (I was kidding)

[jrthe3]

if you want a new one here is a test when you are trying them out at dealer try to back up lift bucket and turn all at same time if it will not do it i would not buy it cause those are what you do the most of and it is no fun to wait to do each move ment alone

[Flat47]

If you haven't already, check out www.tractordata.com for specs and comparisons (and some prices, too).

[Dill]

From the people I've talked to the compact tractor really aren't made for real farm type work. I have my doubts they'll last for the 40 or 50 years like that WD. Right now I'm running a 62 IH 606 on my splitter, its 55 hp and has a fast (22gpm) pump. Most of the newer compacts have under an 10gpm pump, a little slow for splitting. For woods work I have a Zetor 7745, its a 66hp 4x4 with a loader. And I have way way less in them compared to a compact. And both will be making hay this summer.

[BarrelBoiler]

4 years ago i bought a JD 990 diesel 4x4 40hp. put a fari winch on it and it has spent the last 4 winters and parts of the summers pulling wood. with just the bucket to move snow it does a good job as far as field work i don,t know but it is a pulling machine for it's size and so far very dependible

thats my nickle

[Flat47]

So what exactly broke or failed? Lots of parts out there for the WD/WD45.

[Pete S]

We've had the tractor for about 6+ years. It has been a faithful servant, and has done the work of a thousand man hours.

Although, that being said, it's a bit clumsey, and rather BIG in the woods, most of our woods is hilly, OH,........and it has a narrow bucket which has brough on 6-8 stints of loader work in the driveway, as it's as well slow, and Ma says I should look to get a "BLOWER",...........etc.

That's about it, as those are the primary reasons for the update.

Also, would like to get something newer,..............I realize there are no guarantes, but it's knid'a time,...........I move on and start a new relationship.

Thanks for all the responses! As I hope to focus on only a few makes/models and when ready, pull the trigger.

Pete

[maple flats]

I have both a 20 hp and a 25 hp 4x4 compact. When I was buying the first in 1981 (20) all I could find was imported, I insisted on American so i bought a Ford (now New Holland) It turned out to be made in Japan for ford. That one has no bucket loader but i have hauled lots of logs out of the woods both summer and winter. In the winter I have chains for all fours. BUT you must be very careful, don't ride the clutch but be always ready to push the clutch in an instant if the front end raises. I used that until 2 years ago when I bought used its big brother (25 hp) with a bucket loader. When I haul logs this is much better. I put weight in the bucket to help hold it down. I still need to be ready to hit the clutch but far less often. A few years ago I bought a 3 PH log arch that lifts any log up to 22" diam and this pulls much better. I also hold one hand on the 3 ph control to instantly lower the arms if needed. Basically what I am saying is the these size tractors will pull an enormous weight but do not have the weight to control the load properly. By the way, I have roll bars on both and when pulling logs I hook the seat belt. I will not allow my grandson to pull logs thou because of the danger. Remembr, the big wheels and horsepower can flip the tractor quickly.

[3rdgen.maple]

Pete I have a john deere 40hp that is still considered a compact I run a splitter off the tractors hydraulics with out any problems. Obviously the higher I run the RPM's the faster the cycle time on the hydraulics. I posted some threads the other day on this tractor. I haul logs with no problems. The problem Is the front end just does not hold up. I cannot tell you how much money I have put into the front axles and hubs. From all the input I have gotten from AG mechanics is that with a geared transmission these higher hp compacts have too much torque for there frames and when using the loader it is easy to bust up the front end. I have run New Hollands with the hydrostatic transmission with very dissapointing results. I liked the tractor just don't like the hydrostatic transmissions. Instead of just bogging down the motor and being able to give her more juice the hydrostatics just stop moving, so the hydrostatics take alot less of a beating and that is why You tear up the front axles on the compact geared transmissions. I was told many times I'm working it to hard but if the power is there I gotta use it. Also I could be wrong but most of the compacts are made overseas. My john deere i just found out was made by Yanmar. I just exploded the front outer hub assembly again and I called john deere to order a new one and was told the parts are now obsolete. Was told after 10 years john deere does not support them anymore. To beat me up even worse Yanmar makes there parts for John deere just a little different so they won't fit. So tractor graveyard shopping I went Got a used one coming and now will trade her in at the end of sap season. So I would suggest asking alot of questions, Where it was made, How long are parts supported, Hp at the pto, what is the gpm on the pump etc. etc. Good luck with it just seems like everything nowadays is made to be thrown away and replaced instead of fixed. Makes it tuff to decide.

[fred]

it is cheaper $ per hp the bigger you go. i would do a ford 6600 or 6700. i had a 6600 '78 and that thing did anything.i miss it bad

[Flat47]

Where are you located? Classifieds like www.CraigsList.org and (a great one here in Maine) www.UncleHenrys.com have some real good deals. I missed a free International 350 utility with loader by 10 minutes a few months ago, and a good running International 606 for $500 last week.
Also, www.TractorShed.com is another good online resource. It, too, has classifieds as well as discussion forums.

Good luck!

[BarrelBoiler]

thought of something...... if you have impalments(sp?) land plows etc. for the AC you want tokeep useing make sure theyfit the tractor your looking at


most of the bigger JD's have plastic iin places I didn't like the 990 was all steel with the fuel tank up out of the way JD changed their numbers and that tractor is now a 4005 i think

didn't know about the 10 year thing mentioned above


my nickle

[Russell Lampron]

Ten years isn't very long considering the normal useful life of a tractor. Are other manufacturers doing the same thing? I can still get parts for my 1930 Ford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fred]

i dont know where they get their numbers from.it could be just that model. ihave some from the 80's and 40's and i am still getting new parts

[oneoldsap]

I have a friend that is a John Deere service manager, and he tells me compact tractors will soon be junk if you do any real work with them. The front ends are way too small to bear weight and the tires are too small to provide traction or stability or turning power in the woods ... He says they are best suited for lawyers and doctors and such. Go with a utility , the bigger frontend and tires and durability more than make up for the price difference ! My theory has always been to not Max out your machine to get the work done. In other words ,get a little more than you need and it will last a lot longer.

[3rdgen.maple]

OneOldSap, I second that motion. Fred, John deere told me that the ten year parts deal on my tractor was for the compacts which I guess is 40hp and under that Yanmar builds for them. For you guys that are in the same boat as me with the john deere parts not supported from jd I found an AG mechanic in Pa. that is giving me the support that I need. There is a manufacturer that is making brand new after market jd parts. Of course he would not tell me who cause he wants the sale but He can get it from me cause that is a huge problem off my shoulders. I canceled my order with previous guy( 1500 dollars for used )and Got a new one coming with a warranty against defects for 480 dollars. My junk deere just turned back into my John deere again. If anyone wants this guys info let me know I will pass it along. I think the price of the green paint they put on those deere's has got to be made with maple syrup, just a guess.

[fred]

glad it worked out ..... ya compacts are not the answers and i dont like the old school IH they seem so heavy for the hp compared to others

[Dill]

Heavy is good though, it means rugged parts. Which is the problem with the compacts, they just aren't rugged enough for everyday use. I have a neighbor who had a 40hp new Massey and he blew the driveline 3 times in less than 800 hours, Massey bought it back.
Also I'm seeing guys trade the big Kubota's back in with same fears of light parts that seem to get overstressed. When my Father bought his Deere 5410 a few years ago, we looked at the Kubota's and the same size orange machine was 1200 lbs lighter.
One other thing I've learned about Compacts, is there is a limited amount of manufactuers, I had been looking at a Long, which was actually an LG, same as Branson and Montana.
One tractor that seems to hold up well are the 1980's smaller Fords, and they don't get must respect so they're cheap. If the tractor has held up for 20 years and works well then it should hold up for another 20.
Also I'm more and more impressed with my Zetor, its well built, much better than other European brands I looked at. Parts are easily availble, either shipped direct from PA or through one of NH's dealers. And it was a steal.

[Big_Eddy]

I hear everything said above - but I disagree with the comments that compacts are junk. Not true. They are great tractors for what they are designed for.

They are not necessarily the best for the Original Posters stated needs. For pulling logs - you need traction and for traction you need weight and big tires. Compacts don't have either. Pulling logs is also hard on the frame and transmission - so you want a bigger and beefier frame and transmission. For the stated needs of the OP - he would be better suited with a good sized utility tractor with a high flow pump.

That said - compact tractors are great machines. Some of the models have had their issues and some of the models will be around forever. Deere's 70, 90 and 55 series tractors are well respected, and Kubota have some fantastic models. Ford / NH have some great machines too. These compact tractors have significant advantages in terms of weight, size, manueverability and ease of use over the utility tractors, and are much better suited for many landscaping, grounds maintenance and residential uses. They have lots of power in a compact package, and are serious machines when used for what they do best

Just like everything - it's a matter of the right tool for the job - I don't take a skilsaw into the woods, nor do I use the chainsaw framing houses.

[KenWP]

I have seen big tractors wrecked using them the wrong way just as you can wreck a little tractor. Those old Fordson tractors are still in use if they were used for what they were made for. I am useing a W6 from 1951 and its fine as long as I don't think its a 4010 John deere.

[forester1]

I have a Kubota L3400 which is a 34 horse. I also bought a Farmi logging winch for it. I can pull 20" diameter hemlock and white pine logs out of the woods with it. I wouldn't want to do it every day and make a living with this setup, but the Farmi winch is an awesome piece of equipment.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jerry,

I have the same tractor as you and like it a lot. I use it for mainly hauling sap and hauling firewood, that's about it. Mine is a 4x4 DT with a matched Kubota Loader. It is 38 months old and has 94 hours on it. lol Wish I had gotten a hydro, but very happy with mine and it does everything I could ask of it.

I am very happy with my compact and it is 34.7 HP and it was a tremendous buy when I bought it new. Mine has a 5' bucket on it and I haul 70 gallons of sap in the bucket all the time and full of wood too along with carryall full of wood and up to 120 gallon of sap on it. The front end seems heavy and well built and the tires are a little small in my opinion, but they hold up fine and work great!

[ctjim]

i have a compact its a jd 790 30hp, its a very good machine however it has its drawbacks, its light weight is a pain sometimes like plowing snow it will spin the tires on an incline, granted i don't have chains which i should and i also have the r-4 tires which i think was my biggest mistake when purchasing the machine, i was trying to save the lawn and other sensitive areas. other than that it has plenty of power to run my implements, i run a 6 ft disc harrow, a salsco 824 chipper, a 5ft brush hog, hay tedder and rake. i also have a loader for it which is great, although it could use some more l;ift capacity but if it had more i think it would be too top heavy and dangerous, you just need to take it easy and don't think its a bigger machine. any of the compacts are very good machines for their intended use, you can't just go out and think a little 30-40hp mid size will do the brute work of a 50+ hp ag machine. i have seen bigger tractors ruined from using them for work that was beyond what they were intended for also, so it goes both ways. my little compact suits my needs just great, but we also have a couple of older tractors for the heavier work around the farm. i would consider keeping the old wd if possible, you don't see many of those around plus it probably has some nostalga that comes along w/ it. heck we still have the orignal jd h my grandpa bought for the farm, it was the 1st tractor he owned.

[forester1]

Another thing with the compact tractor, I can haul it on a tandem trailer with my pickup. I needed to do that since I blow snow at my house in the winter with it and my woods is 40 miles away. Something to think about if you need to move your tractor.

[3rdgen.maple]

After reading all the post on this subject I think there is some confusion between compacts and utility tractors. Arent compacts actually called compact utility tractors, atleast that is how our local dealers advertise them. I think some of us are talking about the same style tractors.

[Flat47]

I think the lines have been somewhat blurred with the increasing popularity of smaller tractors ("compacts").

Comparing row crop to utility, traditionally row crop tractors had greater ground clearence and a more foreward front axle. Utility tractors used to be lower and had the front axle mounted back a bit, all to better accomodate a loader. Also, row crops often came stock with features like adjustable width front ends and rears, while utilities did not (they were an option).

I think the current trend (as it has been for some years, now) is a "do all" tractor with intended use determining size.

[michiganfarmer]

it is cheaper $ per hp the bigger you go. i would do a ford 6600 or 6700. i had a 6600 '78 and that thing did anything.

thats the truth. Dad bought an international 3088 a couple years ago. Its 90 horse. It cost him $10,000

[michiganfarmer]

Ten years isn't very long considering the normal useful life of a tractor. Are other manufacturers doing the same thing? I can still get parts for my 1930 Ford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I dont think 10 years applies to ag tractors. I think it only applies to the compacts.

[NYScott]

Hey, I am with you on this. I went from a Farmall Super C with a loader (Nice tractor, but no 3pt. hitch) to a JD 2010 Row crop utility (Total junk I was working on it always) to now a FORD 1720 the best of the bunch. I'm not sure of the year but it is a 4x4 diesel ( I think about 28 hp) I picked it up for $6000, The tractor has Ford emblems, The owners manual say New Holland and the tag on the axle says "Made in Japan" It has been excellent for everything I can think of and I do work it pretty hard....I don't have a dozer so I have to make do<g> I would hihgly recommend any of this line to anyone looking for a bargain.

Good luck