Sugarhouse Floors

[Seibold's Sugarhouse]

I'm just starting to plan my new sugarhouse. Any Suggestions?? I would like to pour a concrete slab however I'm not sure if it will be fesible. Does anyone have a plywood floor, what size floor joists should I use to carry the weight of a 2x6 full of bricks and sap? Any layout ideas would be helpful. I have seen most of the pics on this site, but there aren't too many pics of the insides. Any info would be helpful,

Jason

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jason,

I would recommend pouring a full concrete floor. A little extra expense at first, but in the long run a ton better. The main reason is that the floor gets sticky fast and the concrete is easy to wash down and clean up. Can't do that with plywood as it will rot in time and the syrup sticks in the groves and cracks. If poured correctly, a concrete floor will last forever. There is no fire hazard at all with concrete and there is with wood.

As about all of us have learned the hard way, spend a little extra at first and you will be a ton happier in the long run. Besides, wood is really high right now due to all the huricanes down south. :(

[ontario guy]

i have crushed stone, large diameter i think it it something like 3/4.
No fire hazard and if i spill some syrup i just kick the stone around and it disapears :wink: but it always stays dry, when you are scrubbing everything downs the floor doesn't become a mess with all the water.

Anyhow, another option.

Mark

[Al]

I have crushed stone for my floor also. 1/2-3/4 It was cheap and fits my needs as a dabbler of the arts. I leveled my evaporator on large patio blocks. That was last year and my evaporator is still level. Concrete is nice and if I had the money I would of proberly went that route. Remember the floor drains. Went to one sugar house and the guy had no floor drains!
Take care.

[forester1]

In Michigan, if you want to get licensed to sell commercially, you have to have a floor with drains and washable. That pretty much means concrete. I could no way get a concrete truck to my site so I mixed it myself. I had access to a gravel pit where I shoveled pit run into my truck and hauled it to my site a half mile away. I mixed it 6 to 1 portland cement in a wheelbarrow. My floor is 16'x24'. I formed the floor 4'x8'x4" at a time and poured that in a day. It would take 2 or 3 hours but it is hard work. I put in reinforcing mesh in the form. My arch foundations(3 piers) are 4 feet down below frostline. I put expansion material around them. The floor heaves ant the form lines but the evaporator stays level. It would have been better if I would have had sand packed below the concrete instead of just leveling the soil and pouring on top. I think the whole floor took about 20 bags of cement at $6-$7 a bag and the mesh didn't cost much. I forget how much is in the arch foundation but probably less than $300 for everything. But that is not counting my labor.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

As for mixing concrete by hand, I always mix it 3:2:1 ratio. What I mean by that is 3 shovels of gravel, 2 shovels of sand and 1 shovel of cement. Same as the 6 to 1 ratio, but we use sand also as it seems to add some strength.

In pouring a floor where there is freezing likely, several inches of gravels under the concrete works good also because the gravels will move and shift underneath the concrete and help absorb some of the ground upheal during freezing. This helps the gravels to absorb the upheal instead of the concrete. :? Also, it would help any moisture under the concrete to be able to dry out as air can get in. :D

[forester1]

I think my mix was sandier than that since I just dug it and used it as it came out of the earth. If you buy it, than you can specify the mix and more gravel would have been nice in my case. Also I used a lot of rock in the arch foundation since there is a lot here laying around and it is free. It also helps with the strength. For a smaller evaporator you probably can get by without a foundation.

[mapleman3]

I liked the way Brandon did his,(seeing it when I visited last year) his concrete doesn't go all the way to each wall, there is gravel between the wall and where the concrete floor starts, so when he hoses the floor, he can sweep it to the sides and it just goes into the gravel, I guess that was easiest for him having a pole barn construction.. but seems like it would work great !!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jim,

Thanks for the kind words and it has worked good. I have about 4 or 5 inches of gravel between the edge of the concrete and the wall so that the water drains good off the floor.

The building I make my syrup is in my dad's building and not mine, but after living there for 30 years, he is selling after I put a lot of money and tons of time into getting it fixed up for my equipment. :cry: :cry: :cry: I guess I will have to build a sugarhouse somewhere else or quit making syrup. I have not had much luck in finding a location where I can build. :cry: :cry:

[mapleman3]

:cry: Well Brandon, I hope your able to find someplace nearby, will you be able to still tap the same trees? it's still on family land? will you be boiling there this coming season I hope :( ???

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I still have access to all the trees as my dad only owns 1 of the trees I tap and unfortunately, it is the best tree I have.

I hope I can find a place to build or work something else out! :D

[Seibold's Sugarhouse]

Brandon,
I noticed in the pics of your setup that your evaporator was raised off the floor by a small ammount of bricks. Whats the reason for this? Should I do the same thing or does it depend on your setup?
Jason

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jason,

I had it 8" off the floor on a foundation laid up with firebricks. I did this to make it easy to get the ashes out. My arch is 32" high, but most arches are 24" high, so the extra height on a stanard arch would also make it easier on the back.

I just installed an airtight front and blower, so I am going to have to let it back down on the floor. I should have almost no ash with the airtight arch, so I won't worry about the ash and I don't need the extra height due to my evaporator arch being so high already.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

post edited ...Kevin

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Kevin,

My arch is 32" high which is 8" higher than stanard. With the hood, it is really too high. I think it would be plenty high if it was on the floor.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

post edited

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The firing door on the new airtight front is huge, so there is a ton of room and I am not a man of great stature. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Seibold's Sugarhouse]

Kevin,
What do you mean by a firing pit? I'm just getting ready to pour my floor (hopefully next weekend). I've decided on sticking with wood for fuel and I was thinking about building a homemade blower unit. Any recommendations (firing pit, raised arch etc...)
Thanks
Jason

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

post edited

[Seibold's Sugarhouse]

Question: I have removed the first few inches of topsoil and leveled a spot for my concrete floor. I'm going to spread about six inches of gravel and then put the concrete on that. I still have about 4-6 inches of topsoil on the ground, Should I remove it all?? This is a forest floor type of soil. I'm concerned that the orgainic matter in the soil will keep decomposing and leave me with a poor subsurface in a few years. Will the gravel compensate for this? Am I wasting my time thinking about this? (I have a habit of over thinking and complicating stuff like this).
Any thoughts are welcome.
Thanks,
Jason

[brookledge]

Yes I would. Not only is there organic matter that will decompose and settle. the top soil will hold moisture and is likely to heave with frost. Remember you are looking to get a solid base under the arch because you don't want it to move after you level it. Take the time now and dig it out down to the sub soil or 12" to 18" then put in a sandy gravel that will be good to drain moisture out. Then pour your concrete slab.

[syrupmaker]

Jason.... not a professional concrete man by any means, but i have been told and seen it done, put a layer of plastic between the stone and the concrete you will pour. It is supposed to keep the moisture from pumping up through the concrete. Might be BS but i did it when i poured my garage floor. It has only been up for a couple of months so it's hard to tell if it's truth or dare.

Rick

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Don't know about plastic, but have seen it done. The thicker the gravel, the more stable your floor will be.

Also, use plenty of rebar and reinforcing wiring inside the concrete. The more wire and rebar, the stronger it will be! :D

[forester1]

When I poured my floor I didn't use plastic and poured right on top of leveled topsoil, but removing leaves and roots etc. You can see a damp spot under my dogs head in the one picture in my mapletrader photo album. It is always a little damp there. Plus the floor heaves. I'm glad I went below frost for the arch foundation at least. If I could do certain things over again, I would do them different. Live and learn.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

The more info the better as I am learning more things all the time on this website. I may have to build a sugarhouse in a year or two, so the more info I learn will hopefully help to eliminate mistakes others have made! :D :D :D :D

[themapleking]

When you order your cement get the high p.s.i. i.e. 5000 . Have the fiber added to it. It's like $10 per yd. The fiber adds strength to it so you don't need the rebar. Save you some $ and time.

[syrupmaker]

I'll agree with Joe on the fiber additive for strength but i would still add rebar and/or mesh. One thing i have seen is that no matter what you do you can never avoid it cracking. Without rebar and/or mesch when it cracks it will float apart and leave a gap, which inturn can float at different levels. At least with some rebar it still has to lift a complete section if it wants to move. The old (costs a nickle more to go 1st class). If times are tight you could use old bed frame rials or head and foot boards.(steel) Or i have even seen old truck and car frames used to give it some added strength. Remember no matter what you use it will always be a bugger when it comes time to tare it out.

Rick

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have poured quite a bit of concrete over the years and we usually use a very heavy gauge fencing type wiring that is about 6 feet in width and secure it about half way between the bottom and top of the concrete for extra strength. A good way to do this is to drive small pieces of rebar into the ground and wire the fencing type wire to it. The gauge we use is at least twice the gauge of fencing wire.

Another way to do it is to lay the wire on the ground and as your are pouring the concrete, pull it up inside the concrete.

A little extra work and a few more dollars pays off dividends down the road. I think the fiber adds extra strength, but I haven't used it too much. The best thing about wire is that it ties the entire floor together where the fiber is only aprox an inch long.

[Russ]

We poured a slab for our original evaporators, but didn't want to buy/mix concrete for the rest of the shed. We knew a farmer who dismanted a cement stave silo; we laid the cement staves down on the floor like pavers. Sand and ashes have filled in the seams, which still allow water to drain through. We have 5 leveling legs on each side of the new evaporator, but we will wait for the test firing to do the fine leveling. Given the floor we have, we will likely be re-leveling at least once each season.