Am I doing something wrong when boiling

[Sugar Sue]

We boiled on Tuesday. We had about 95 gals of sap and started boiling around 10:00 am. I kept a good fire going. The center 2 syrup channels were at full boil front to back. The outer 2 channels would boil in the center, about a 6 inch long spot but not all the time. The flue pan was boiling in the front half so hard that the sap was spitting out of the pan. I was only running about 2-1 1/2 inches in the pans and only adding defoamer one drop at a time in the flue pan when it foamed up. my float box is not working so I had a slow trickle of sap running in the pan. Sometimes it seemed that all of a sudden the level would drop real quick. I bought a deep fry/ candy thermometer and put it in the last channel before the draw off box. The sap was boiling just over 200 degrees. So I think that the thermo was off. I was using my hydrometer and could just get the thing to balance in the cup. It never floated. We let the fire die just as we ran out of sap. I pulled off about 7 cups of syrup and thought I would just finish it in the house. I left the rest in the evaporator to start up again. Is this all normal? Could my sap have been that diluted?

[dano2840]

you want to make sure your firing evenly fire one side then fire the other 5 min later, and do the other 5 min later, the float box will work just you need to adjust it right, the float box is a big part of the evaporator,

[maplecrest]

what you have done is sweeten the pans. the first boil is allways a long day with very little results. what did your sap test? if is 1% 3 cups of syrup is about right. your next boil you will get more syrup. a sap hydometer would help you determine your boiling by sap content. 3% is around 30 gallons of sap to a gallon of syrup. others wil tell you the 86 rule. as for fireing spread your fire out under the pan. you will be suprised how much wood you can fit in the corners of the arch. i always fired on the side i was not drawing on and pushed the burning wood under the side i was finishing on. never opening that door. and that kept the boil up under that pan. and new wood under the other side stuffing the corners with all i could get in there

[Haynes Forest Products]

Sue: there is a diferance between foam and boiling water so learn what to look for. Foam will climb up the sides and look like the boil over on boiling Potatoes. Dont be in a hurry to draw off and cook in the house. The reason you went to the big time evaporator is to do it all in the pans. You need the ballance of sap and syrup in the pans so dont draw off until its within 2 points
Is the float between the flue and syrup set up correctly. What can happen is if you dont get all systems running smooth they will start to surg and cause weird thing to happen.
Try this without the fire going open the draw off into a bucket and watch the flow thru the pans and see how the floats are regulating the sap. You NEED the flue pan float working. Its better to start out slow with under supply until you get it adjusted. If you flood the flue pans during adjustment it will take alot of back and forth before you get it right. Its best to work the adjustments slow and work up to the right level and keep a close eye on it.

[Sugarmaker]

Sue,
Sounds about right for your rig. I would drop the sap level to 1-1/2 inch when you feel more comfortable. I made hundreds of gallons of syrup with no float box, but they are designed to regulate the flow in so that you dont have to watch it but we all do any way:). But using the trickle in approach: it doesnt take long to get the right flow to match the boil rate. Do you have the sap going in to the rear pan float box just no float? That's where I would have it if the float is not working.
Your back pan was preforming as normal it should boil so that it almost jumps out of the pan.
Do you have gaskets under the pans? If not this could allow some cold air to suck in along the sides and cool the boil. Also any strong draft could reduce your boil. I have sometimes closed the doors on the sugar house and saw a marked difference in the boil.

You had a nice first run you did not say how long you boiled. Your boil rate should be maybe 20-25 GPH? Assume you boiled it all in. Our first run we had 330 gallons of 2% sap, boiled about 4 hours and made 2 gallons of finished syrup, with a lot still in the evaporator, we boiled about 1.5 inches deep.

try to get a digital thermometer in that reads in tenths this is very important and will greatly increase your chances of getting syrup to the correct density on the evaporator. Have you seen some one test the syrup by the apron method? It gets you withing a point or two of syrup with no other tools.

Was you sap diluted? Well the only way to know is to check it with various means. Refractometer or sap hydrometer. both will tell you the sugar content which should be around 2%.

As mentioned I think you just sweetened the pans to be ready for the next run.

Keep up the good work and let us know how things are going.
Chris

[MapleME]

you guys are all so nice- good to see such helpful stuff going on here. Good luck sue.

[Sugar Sue]

It is not that I don't know how to use my float box, it is that when the arm is up it does not seal off the sap from coming in the box. It still comes in at a fast trickle. I guess I could regulate my float including the trickle. I can't take off yet because I have sap in my pans. I am starting my second boil tomorrow morning. Let you know how it goes.

[Sugar Sue]

I do also have rail and pan gasket on my pans. Our evaporator was left for us when we bought the house in July. It is an old Leader King 2 x 6. The pans are not stainless so can I assume they are tin? Why can't I get the syrup pan to boil in all the channels even though I am spreading the fire and coals? Only the center 2 will boil consistanly and completely.

[Flat47]

Just some thoughts to throw out there - what are the stack demensions at the base? You've got a 2' wide rig so the stack opening should be something like 1'8" wide. If somehow that got changed to a smaller width, you could lose the boil near the back of the rig in those channels.

How about the bricking and blanket insulation - any irregularities that would force air towards the center of the rig?

[peacemaker]

sue us the rubber gasket in the z arm and how high above the evap is your head tank it might be to much pressure and is pushing past your float

[Sugar Sue]

I will have to check on the stack base. I think it is good. I know the whole arch is lined with brick. I don't know if there is any blanket, I have not tried to look under the brick.

My supply tank outlet( a 100gal livestock tank) is almost on the same plane as the supply pipe off of my flaot box. I just had the box rebuilt. It does seem to not be making a good seal.

[3% Solution]

Sugar Sue,
Even though your float is up tight against the inlet pipe, it may not shut it off completely.
You don't have a shut off valve there, you have a crude way of maintaining a liquid level.
I agree with Sugar Maker, drop that level down to 1.5", you boil harder which means a better evaporation rate, which means more syrup per hour.
We run ours at 1.25" and it makes syrup quick.
Your not going to hurt anything, but you need to stay there and keep your eye on it!!!
If the level gets below 1.25" it's hard to keep the sap coming in unless you really hump the sap in fast in spurts.
Yeah I would say you just "sweatened the pans."
It takes us about 70 gallons to sweeten things up good.
The way we fire ours is to pull all of the burning material into the center and fire the outsides, about every 10 minutes.
You guys should be making syrup as I type!!!!!!!
Keep er going!!!!!

Dave

[HHM-07]

Sue,

As to your float problem it sounds like your rubber seal may not be contacting the base of your float on a level angle make sure when you rubber seal comes down to hit the other part of your float that it is level and making an even contact all around in other words your rubber seal and the other part of the float must be paralell with each other

Dick GOOD LUCK

[Haynes Forest Products]

You said the float box was just rebuilt. What is it they did to rebuild it. Check to see if there is sap in the float. The float has to match the float box if its to small it will cock to one side causing the seal area to deform and leak.

[Grade "A"]

Sue, I know how you feel about the first boil of the season. It seems that you will never get any syrup off the evaporator. But the next time you boil the front pan is full of "sweet" so you will pulling syrup off before you know it. I wonder if you have alot of draft and are pulling the fire away from the pan. Also like Sugarmaker said when you feel more comfortable drop the syrup level in the front pan, that will speed things up for you.

[Sugar Sue]

How exciting to get syrup for the first time. We boiled today for 2 hr and 45 mins and got about a 1 1/2 gal. We were firing about every 5 mins. I kept watching my thermometer and when it went higher that I had seen it go before I use the hydrometer and I was past syrup. I was watching my thermometer to see when the temp went down. It did not go down as fast as I thought it would. While I was drawing off I kept checking the density and could not believe how much I got off. For some reason my float box worded today. Boy is that nice not to have to watch the sap level real close. My float is close tot the size of the box but, when they were checking the float box for leaks they blew it up like a balloon. They pounded it back to almost square. It does not quite float straight, and that could be why it was not stopping the flow. Can't tell you why it worked today. We ran out of sap so we stopped the fire and let things cool. I still have about 15 gals of sap in the supply tank to set me up for next time. It doesn't look like it is going to get above freezing for about a week here. Break time.

[Flat47]

Sounds great...keep up the good work!

[Haynes Forest Products]

Sue: Check to see if the vent tube on the float is open so hot sap doesnt cause it to expand like a ballon. I have a feeling your going to be a pain around the house until the sap flows again.

[dano2840]

im a pain around the house right now, parents are going nutz because im nuts all im thinking about sugaring sugaring sugaring, gotta do this gotta do that, i think i might me insane right now, theres so much pressure in my head right now it might blow off

[maple flats]

Sue, for sure to check float vent. There is a small hole in the top of the upright arm on the float. New ones look like a round tube but old ones were folded and soldered. My 2x6 had a hole only about 1/8" in size. One year mud daubers or some other critter filled it with mud. With a little water inside to create steam it will swell or with partial block it my vent pressure but collapse upon cooling. To clear it just poke a stiff wire all the way down into the arm til it reaches the main cavity. This is only something you might need to do at the start of the season. When the sap is leaking around the rubber gasket is it one side only? If yes the seat is twisted. Is the seal lifting the fitting up as you raise the float arm? I had one that had a spring to hold the fitting into the float box in order to get a proper seal (it was an 80's vintage Leader 2x6) On that if you need a spring there will be a small tab (hook) on the top of where the fitting goes in and on the fitting itself. If you need such a spring you could get one from leader or find one about 1 1/4" or maybe 1.5"long and about 3 or 4 times as strong as one in a ball point pen, most hardware stores will have a spring assortment. You should also realize even a properly working float seal is usually not 100% shut off but the leaking is not a problem when the evaporator is in use. You should have a valve to close when not in use. I agree with the others, boil with less in evaporator. Do this in small adjustments as you get more comfortable with the boiling process. I like 1.25-1.5" Some like it as shallow as .75. The shallower the faster the boil but also the faster things can go wrong and you need to know what to do NOW!!!! When I have an assistant to fire the rig I go with 1" and when flying solo I like 1.25-1.5" which is most often the case. If I have visitors I raise it to 1.5-2".

[3% Solution]

Sugar Sue,
If that 15 gallons for next time is in the feed tank that goes to your evaporator, you better get it out of there before it freezes in the tank and your feed line.
You won't be boiling the next time you get sap!!
Oooops, not trying to tell you what to do!!!
The next time you boil think about how much longer you can boil to use that 15 gallons.
I would say maybe 2 more firings, at least one more.
This is some of the fun stuff now, figuring theses things out.

Dave

[KenWP]

I have to ask what do you guys mean by firings.

[ackerman75]

When you put wood in the evaporator.