Outside Boiler Laws

[markcasper]

Hey everyone, check this CRAP out. I received a letter pertaining to this last week.

Check out the site and look under ''new business''.

http://townofstanton.com/page/core1.html

How long before our maple syrup operations are shut down, or taxed out of business?

I am actively trying to get information on this and will pursue this one tooth and nail. Its time to get around the township and round up the woodburning crowd.

[Flat47]

Here is Maine one big issue is emissions coming from outdoor boilers. It's really just an issue when they're in "standby" mode and producing heavy smoke. Taller stacks may put the smoke up higher and into the next town, but the emissions are still there.

For us sugarmakers, I'm not so sure it's a fair comparison since we run our rigs wide open all the time, and therefore get better combustion more consistantly. Of course, any fire allowed to smolder will have poor emissions.

No doubt it's a topic and concern to be aware of as many many people use some kind of wood-fired heat source.

[tapper]

One more step toward socialism. Make everyone pay for everything. Make all people in the country so poor they have to depend on government. I dont think so!!
We are supposed to be a country governed by its poeple and we have just about totally lost that. Its about time all of us stand up against crap just like this and stop letting inspectors and our so called representatives have the final say.

[Hop Kiln Road]

Hi Jon! Unfortunately, it's too late and the country is waiting for the government to fix things, which it can't even if it wanted. The good news is the little ground level producers - that's us - will fare the best and the consumers are going to learn a hard lesson. Ingenuity and self-reliance and an awe of nature, those old New England values that are still practiced whenever one taps a maple. Good Luck. Bruce

[Clan Delaney]

Guys, let's try and stick to the topic and avoid letting political viewpoints take over. It inevitably turns any discussion ugly.


My neighbor was the first property in town to install an outdoor wood boiler. At the time he said the inspector didn't even know what to make of it. Now, the whole area is cracking down. Too many complaints, and those have caused towns to look closer at the issue. My neighbor manages his responsibly - clean, dry wood - and we rarely smell any smoke from it. I've even written a letter tot he town on their behalf, saying as much.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Wood boilers as a heat sourse is a seperate set of rules when it comes to code enforcment. Making maple syrup is food production and doing it out doors or in a seperate building doesnt fall under those codes. Like Clan said if you have the weenies close to the camp fire your ok. Having a fire in a closed vessal is the same as cooking over a grill during fire bans. I think its a streach to compare the two.
If you have a steam boiler that heats your sap you do need to have the inspection done on the boiler. When I did gold work we had a steam cleaner that sat on the work bench and it needed to be inspected by the township.

[markcasper]

It becomes more than just a political issue when the government starts coming in and telling you what you can or can't heat your house with. I live on a farm in the country and thought I'd always be safe from beaurocratic things such as this. My smoke is not bothering anyone and my neighbors OWB smoke does not bother me.

The fact is, I am not using the system when I burn my own fuel. I can see regulation in a more populated area and many villages and cities have their own regulations regarding their use. To come out and paint the whole township, no matter where you live is just plain wrong.

The writing on the wall is here. Its not the smoke or the so called "pollution" they claim the stoves make. That is just an excuse to charge another fee, hire another person to pay with taxpayer dollars, etc. Now will get "charged" for having a OWB in the name of keeping the air cleaner. That is a big lie!!!!
If thats the case, then all the running around to stockcar races, running back and forth to kids sporting events and activities, that should be charged too.
My dad has a few tractors that spit out more smoke than my OWB, so when will the day come when those will ultimately be inspected and shunned in the name of air quality. Years ago they burned coal, our county has many buildings in the towns that were built out of Dunn sandstone. The buildings that remain have turned quite dark in their appearance and the stary is because of all the coal that was burned in the 1800's and early 1900's. Hmmmm, wonder if any coal burning appliance was inspected and regulated back then? Were those people worried about "air pollution".
Really, those people should have paid a fee for burning that much coal.

The deal is this, if there arises VALID complaints from neighbors and there is an ongoing issue with an OWB, then that is how it should be dealt with. Much the same as if our cattle keep getting out on the road, the township shouldn't enact an ordinance that charges a fee to every cattle owner in the township.

[brookledge]

In Bernardston,a town to the north of me, on the Vermont border a judge just ruled that a home owner must shut down his OWB. I'm not sure on the specifics but I'm sure there will be more lawsuits over them.
Obviously the OWB took the communities by suprise and at the beginning there were no bylaws or state regs pertaining to them. So those that put them in early were not regulated. I can see both sides of the issues and I think there should atleast be some guidelines for them.
I put in a inside wood boiler in my cellar this year. Furnace was 3,000 and another 1,000 for the plumber and electrician. It circulates into the oil furnace and it is working great. Haven't used any oil since I first lit the fire.
Keith

[dnap63]

I am a code officer in New York State, a permit is required for any solid fuel heating device whether indoors or out. Insurance companies push to get these laws in place to help prevent improperly installed woodstoves and boilers from burning down houses. Which lowers the number of claims they have to pay out. There are some towns in my area that have made local laws banning outside wood boilers, and at least one wacko state legislater pushing to have them banned state wide.

[KenWP]

I heated with wood for the first time in my life this winter. Was amazed at how warm I was compared to the oil furnace which caused me to be almost crippled with arthritis. We are allowed OWB here and I was looking at one because of my asthma and to cut down on the dust in the house. I think they would work well except for warm days when they just sit there keeping warm instead of hot. If you hooked them up to you hot water tank they would probbably work more and smoke less.

[Revi]

I heated with wood for the first time in my life this winter. Was amazed at how warm I was compared to the oil furnace which caused me to be almost crippled with arthritis. We are allowed OWB here and I was looking at one because of my asthma and to cut down on the dust in the house. I think they would work well except for warm days when they just sit there keeping warm instead of hot. If you hooked them up to you hot water tank they would probbably work more and smoke less.

I know somebody who almost died because of his neighbor's OWB. They burn with a smoldering fire and have incomplete combustion. I don't think it will help your astma at all to have one. I'd rather have a Tarn or a Black Bear wood furnace that burns much cleaner.

[jrthe3]

i think that some one needs to look into these wood burners and how they are installed anyone can get one and put it in but if it aint right it could burn there house down it could be the family next door i seen a few not right and blow hot water all over the yard

[green4310]

I am finishing my 14th heating season with my OFB. I have heated with a lot of different types of wood stoves. Kitchen stoves, parlor stoves, add ons, wood furnace in basement, and finally this OFB. For the past fourteen years I have had no smoke in my house, no mess, no bugs, no fumes, no sign ,in my house, that wood was my heat source.
My insurance folks don't care as there is no danger of chimney fire. If they were to monitor the polutants coming from the OFB over a twenty four hour period, I would make the wager that they give off no more than one of those high tech, over priced yuppy heaters. I load mine typically around 9:00 AM and again at around 5:00PM. The morning load is a full load(16hrs). The evening load is from 1/3 to 1/2 load(8hrs). When the temp. is in the 50s it gets only one filling per day. In late spring I sometimes get three days burn on a single filling. As long as the water temp. is over 180deg F, the thing doesn't burn. The draft blower only comes on when the water temp gets below 180. It is air tight so that when not burning it is for all intent and purpose out. If you open the fill door after it has been shut down, you would think the fire was out and needed kindling. When the blower kicks on it burns really hard, the same as putting a blower on your evaporator. I will say though that the first burn of the season, when the water is cold and there are no coals built up, you get the most smoke. this usualy is around an hour or two until the water is up to temp. One other myth is dry wood. I personally prefer greener fresh cut as it doesn't burn as fast. This allows more heat for the water and less up the stack. Also the largest chunk I can get through the door, for the same reason. Small peices tend to smoke a bit more, in my opinion. I fired with saw mill slab wood for years and it worked well but the small peices did put out more smoke. The last few years I have used sugar bush blow downs and what ever wood I could get handy from our own woods. Just my experiences. Don't want to step on anyones toes. Have a good, profitable season all.

[RUSTYBUCKET]

dnap63,

......and at least one wacko state legislater pushing to have them banned state wide.

Do you have any links to this?
Thanks

Russ

[markcasper]

I know a neighbor that died from taking the flu shot.......she was told it was safe.
If the insurance company is concerned, then they usually check things like that out. I have been hearing reports of the governement planning on pushing programmable thermostats in our houses. READ BETWEEN THE LINES FOLKS!

Its time to stock up on the K-Y if we are not going to raise our eyebrows to some of this. I have been searching, contacting a few OWB manufacturers, a boiler installer, and noone has heard anything about a WI mandate in regards to OWB's.

[Mike Van]

Like this forum is to syrup, there's others that deal with wood/stove/owb's, etc. A google search for owb will probably turn up a years worth of reading. Lots of towns have passes their own laws about them. Ours here is 250 ft from your closest property line. Pretty much rules out a 1 acre lot. They are not always "grandfathered", if someone wants to get it declared a "hazard to the public health" well, I wouldn't want to go there. As with most things, a few will ruin it for many. The lists of stuff I've seen/heard of being burnt in owb's, people wouldn't dream of burning in their home. Somehow the fact that it's "outside" makes it o.k. to burn garbage, old poles & ties, rubber, plastic, building demo, etc.

[brookledge]

to me the biggest issue when they are used in close proximity to others is the months they are allowed to be used. In the winter months I see no problem although I have heard of neighbors getting up set because they can't hang there cloths out to dry because of the smoke. I have also watched a owb in July when it called for heat. The smoke was so heavy and thick as it crossed the road I couldn't see on coming traffic for a moment.
Those that heat their hot water year round should have more regulations than those that don't.
The bottom line is if you are a good distance from the closest neighbor than you should be able to do what you want. But if your neighbors right to open their windows in July without being filled with smoke or having a backyard party are infringed upon by someone else that is where "big brother" needs to step in and protect others
Keith

[gator330]

I find it funny that in a lot of places I can't have a out door wood fired boiler, but you can put one in your basement with out a problem???? Same smoke stack and smoke in the same place????

[brookledge]

I do agree with you. The only thing that is different that I can think of is the height of the chimney.In therory I think the regulators feel it is better to have the smoke come out of a chimney at 25-30 feet in the air vs 10 feet from a owb. But in the case of the owb that I watched on that hot summer day in July the smoke was coming down after it left the stack.
i'm lucky that I'm a long distance from my closest neighbor so this topic will probably never affect me. I'm just being a devils advocate on this topic cause i witnessed what they are capable of doing.
Keith

[Hurdhaven Farm]

Here's a link to the state laws (regulations) that apply to OWBs.

http://www.vtwoodsmoke.org/regl-other.html

We have a OWB and love it. My neighbors say they didn't even know I heated with wood, as you can't see our OWB from the dirt road we, and they , live on. On the other hand I have seen smoke from set-ups in locations that I feel are wrong on many levels. I am not a big fan of Government oversight but the regulations that Vermont and other states have enacted address many of the problems caused by poorly sited and run OWBs.
I am a Respiratory Therapist and certified Asthma Educator by profession and have to admit that we have higher levels of childhood asthma than one would think a very environmentally conscious small rural State would have. I am sure wood smoke takes some of the blame.

[gator330]

Same stack that goes up the side of a house. They extend there is even a kit to extend them. That puts the smoke up over the roof tops. I do agree there are places that even that is not the answer. I just hate to see the goverment creat larger problems "fixing" a lesser one!!!! Common sence should play a roll more then goverment intervention.

[wcproctor]

indoor / outdoor wood boiler or a very good indoor wood stove that will last all day with 3 logs in it.They all make smoke. What the problem? The problem is that the people that have to use oil or gas to heat there house,they are jealous because we do not have a heating bill. But they for get that we bust are buts to get wood cut and split. We (our 4 fathers) have been burning wood for ever. NO MORE FOSSIL FUELS!!!!!!!!!

[maplecrest]

i live in a historic area in my town. i had to go to the planning comm. to get a permit for my boiler. they came out chose the site, the chimmney height and color for me. i have had not one complaint or a problem . i burn seasoned hard wood. the problem people are the ones that burn hemlock and other wet junk wood that smokes out the neighbors or themselves. all circles back to the owner usage.as they say a few can end it for all

[Stickey]

love my OWB, have not burned oil since Dec. 6. The fresh air and exercise required to keep it going are GOOD things. I can't even see the smoke coming out most of the time. The local fire marshal showed me the NEW laws, just the other day. AHH, Permit Shmermit!!