Underway in New York City

[Tomahawk]

I installed a couple of taps today, they started running immediately. I'll probably do the "rest" this week sometime.

My goal is the same as it is every year -- 1 gallon of maple syrup. Wish me luck, heh!

My 10-day forecast looks great with above/below freezing numbers the entire way.

Hi again to all my friends at mapletrader -- just thought I'd check-in like I usually do this time of year.

Good luck to everyone this season!

[eye8astonie]

Tomahawk,

Just curious how you boil down there in the city? I just moved back into the city of Binghamton, and fire dept. says I can't run my wood-fired barrel stove in town. I've only got one tree to tap in my back yard, but I know I could find more trees to tap if I had a way to boil more efficiently. I'll probably do most on the side burner of my gas grill, and/or fire up the turkey fryer for the larger runs. Not efficient, but enough to quell the sugar bug a little.

Duane

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Tomahawk,

Great to see ya back again. Keep us posted on how the season goes and how much you produce!

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Clan Delaney]

Tomahawk,

Just curious how you boil down there in the city? I just moved back into the city of Binghamton, and fire dept. says I can't run my wood-fired barrel stove in town. I've only got one tree to tap in my back yard, but I know I could find more trees to tap if I had a way to boil more efficiently. I'll probably do most on the side burner of my gas grill, and/or fire up the turkey fryer for the larger runs. Not efficient, but enough to quell the sugar bug a little.

Duane

That just sounds crazy! I know that where I am, for example, barrel burning of garbage is illegal, and they've cracked down hard on outdoor wood boilers, but we do campfires in the lower yard all summer long, and I always have a package of hotdogs nearby so I can say that I'm cooking, and not just burning yard waste. (I am burning yard waste - deadfall from the trees - but that's just because I'm not going to buy wood when I've got plenty enough giving my lawnmower a hard time!) Anyway... do you know what the reasoning is for the ixnay on your barrel arch?

And tomohawk, I'm also curious as to how you boil in the city. And where do you find the trees?

[Tomahawk]

Tomahawk,

Great to see ya back again. Keep us posted on how the season goes and how much you produce!

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Brandon!!

Sap is flowing nice today. I]ve harvested about 10 gallons already from only 2 buckets so far. Gotta get the rest in soon.

You make syrup any yet?

[Tomahawk]

Tomahawk,

Just curious how you boil down there in the city? I just moved back into the city of Binghamton, and fire dept. says I can't run my wood-fired barrel stove in town. I've only got one tree to tap in my back yard, but I know I could find more trees to tap if I had a way to boil more efficiently. I'll probably do most on the side burner of my gas grill, and/or fire up the turkey fryer for the larger runs. Not efficient, but enough to quell the sugar bug a little.

Duane


I use a few different methods, changing it up all the time because none of them are really any good.

I use the turkey fryer until whatever friends discarded propane I have collected over the year is gone.

I have a natural gas connection to my gas grill so sometimes i hook the turkey fryer up to that with a makeshift adapter. But, since the turkey fryer is jetted for propane, it makes alot of soot which is a real pain to clean up.

I'll then take the grill inserts and flavor bars out of my Weber gas grill and try to put some large pans down near the flames. I really need to have a specific size pan fabricated out of stainless steel that'll fit tightly into the grill but I priced it out and it's too expensive.

So, I usually end up with pots and pans on the 4 burner stove top in my kitchen. It's bad, the windows drip with condensation and large pools collect on the sills -- but worst of all, it takes FOREVER. I think I spent 20 hours evaporating 50 gallons of sap 2 years ago.

Needless-to-say, I need a better system -- the right size (custom made) pan in the gas grill is likely my best option. I just won't break down and spend the money.

Thanks for your interest eye8astonie and good luck to you this year!

[Tomahawk]

... And where do you find the trees?

I have a park with a small wooded area right near my residence. There are about ten maples there, half are red and half are sugar, so that's where I tap. I carry the sap back and store it in a (clean) garbage can.

How big is your operation?

Thanks Clan and good luck this season!

[TapME]

Tomahawk,

Just curious how you boil down there in the city? I just moved back into the city of Binghamton, and fire dept. says I can't run my wood-fired barrel stove in town. I've only got one tree to tap in my back yard, but I know I could find more trees to tap if I had a way to boil more efficiently. I'll probably do most on the side burner of my gas grill, and/or fire up the turkey fryer for the larger runs. Not efficient, but enough to quell the sugar bug a little.

Duane

your town fathers have to much time on there hands if they do this kind of stuff. If it was me and it was at one time I would move. Can't imagine what they are doing to the schools and the taxes. just my 2 cents

[Clan Delaney]

How big is your operation?

Thanks Clan and good luck this season!

Small. But only compared to what I could do, I guess. So let's say... big enough for now. 18 taps, 10 gallons last year.
Things didn't come together the way I'd hoped for this season, so I'm scaling back. I'll make enough for the family for the year on the propane and have already arranged to sell sap to another Trader down in CT. In my spare time, I'll be sticking my head in at Jim's (mapleman3's) sugar house and learning some more about running the "big rigs". If good things really do come to those who wait, then I've got a tidal wave of sap coming for me next year. :)

[maple flats]

eye8astonie, I think it is the law in NYS that you can burn wood to cook food, maple syrup IS food. They may be able to regulate safety issues and how the evaporator is set up for clearance to combustables but you should be able to use a wood fired evaporator. Check for the NYS law relating to cooking fires and cooking with wood, you should be able to get these online if you can word the search right.
What did the fire dept say was the reason for not being able to use it?

[maple flats]

You may want to point out that a wood fired evaporator does not smoke because it is run very hot and no smoke can be seen as a result, you do not smoulder.

[Clan Delaney]

eye8astonie, I think you're missing the most obvious fix to your problem... offer the guys from the fire dept. some free maple syrup!

[Tomahawk]

I collected about 30 gallons from 6 taps so far and I decided to do some boiling today. What a nightmare. I'm using the turkey fryer hooked up to the natural gas supply -- I can only boil down about 1 gallon every 2 hours.

That's like 60 hours of boiling.

My goals are much lower than in past years, if I make a quart of syrup, I'll be happy. It'll be enough for personal use for probably the entire year.

Looking over past years numbers, I figured out my sap-to-syrup ratio. It's takes about 65 gallons of sap to make 1 gallon of syrup. Low sugar content is likely because of my "southern" location and the fact that it doesn't stay "very" cold long enough.

I like everything about maple syruping -- I don't mind buggy-lugging spackle buckets full of sap and struggling to keep it cold and the cleanups etc. -- but the evaporation part is getting to be a real pain-in-the-***.

I think I need to find a better way. I may have to hang up this hobby until I do -- it ain't no fun anymore.

Anyway, I hope everyone else is having good luck this year.

[sugar man]

new york new york , lapierre has a l.p gas fired hobby evaporator looks to be portable check it out.

[DaveB]

Hey Tomahawk,

A couple of suggestions:

1) Do you have a flat plan like a restaurant sized lasagna pan? The more surface area the better the evaporation rate.

2) Do you cover your pan? If you used a cookie sheet to cover 90% of the pan, you'd increase the evaporation rate.

3) Do you have protection from wind? Any gust of wind is going to decrease your evaporation rate from heat loss.

If you tried these suggestions, you should be able to get up to 3 or even 4 gallons an hour. I used to use propane tanks long time ago like this and I'd have to keep switching them out because of lost surface area (or move the tank around). I know you can do better than you're getting. You have a constant supply of gas at a steady pressure...no reason that it wouldn't.

BTW, I love the fact that you're making it in New York City! That's awesome!

Dave

[Tomahawk]

Thanks Dave, I need the encouragment right now. I'd LOVE to get 3-4 gallons an hour. That'd make this FUN again.

1) I do have a stainless pan like you describe -- I use it on the rage top indoors. But here's the thing: I have to stand there and watch it constantly, not taking my eyes off it for even 30 seconds. I put it over 2 burners and it's fast -- yes -- but only if I keep the level VERY low. So, I have to add very small amounts of sap CONSTANTLY (every few minutes) to maintain the speed.

Ironically, as I was posting the above message on the 28th, I burned the pan. It's sitting under a pile of snow at my backdoor right now so I don't even know if it's revive-able or not, LOL.

My justification (valid or not) about the pan is that it's surface is not THAT much bigger the turkey pot and I'm better off overall keeping this activity outdoors.

2) Once I get a rolling boil, I usually leave the cover a little more than half covering the turkey fryer pot. It makes me wonder if condensation is dripping back into the pot but in the end, it boils much more vigorously with the top half on, so I do it.

3) I DO indeed protect the setup from the wind using an old washing machine box. I have a separate peice of cardboard that I cover the top of the box with, only pulling back occasionally to take a peek in. It's probably not the best protection, but it works pretty well.

The burner on the stock turkey fryer is about 4-5 inches from where the pot sits. I figured I was losing alot of heat in that space.

I've never fried a turkey in my entire life so, I modified the fryer bringing the burner up 4 inches. I think (hope) that this is going to make a drastic difference.

Did you use the pan on top of the turkey fryer burner?

Hmmmmm...3-4 gallons an hour, I can't get that out of my head -- man that sounds awesome!

Thanks for the input dave, I really appreciate it!

[DaveB]

I think my pan was 24-30" long and about 12" wide. I bought one of those two burner cook tops in addition to my turkey fryer. I remember that the twin burner setup took one feed and split it in two so I never got a good 'feed' to each burner. You might not have that problem with a natural gas feed. My solution was to switch the single burner from the fryer with one of the ones on the dual burner setup. That gave me one dedicated burner cranking and another one supplying 'support' heat'.

I used an equal sized cookie sheet that I got at the restaurant supply place (along with the lasagna pan) and covered most of the pan. I thought the same thing that you did about the condensation, but my calculations showed I was getting a better rate than without it so on it stayed.

I would fill the pan up to about 2" max and then let that boil down to about 1" and then I would add hot sap that was warming on the third burner. Always hot sap. I'd pour it in real slow to not knock the boil down with a ladle. When I would see some foam, I'd add a drop of butter.

I only boiled on weekends and I would have about 60-80 gallons or so of sap. I'd boild like that for 10 hours on Saturday and another 8 on Sunday. 80/18=4.4 gallons/hour. I know it can be done!! The only problem I found was that the propane costs me about the same as it would for me to buy the syrup, but my syrup is the best tasting in the world and you can't by that! ;)

I've attached a shot of my old setup so you can see how it looked.

Dave

[Clan Delaney]

Dave,

Your describe my setup almost dead on, but my calculations from last year only got me a little more than 1 gallon an hour. I even did timed tests with the pan and burner I'll use this year evaporating measured amounts of water, and did no better. I must have your secret!

Some differences: I ran my pan and pots DEEP. I guess I traded GPH for caution. A shallow pan needs to be watched like a hawk. My keeping the pots deep, I could get away with checking on them only about every 20 minutes.

I set aluminum cake pans on top of each pot, and used them as pre-heaters. Every 20 mins., I would be able to dump the 180 degree contents into the pots. Late in the season last year I rigged a slow drip, slow enough to not kill the boil.

Hmmmm... How close was the burner to your pans? I know that the hottest part of the flame is the point, but maybe there's something to be said for letting it spread out under the pan.


Oh, and sap should be running today (cross fingers). I'll be in touch about pickup! Probably early next week?

[DaveB]

OK, here's the secret, but you can't tell anyone! ;)

I think it's important to keep the level low, like around 1". I also had the lid (cookie sheet) on tight and covering 90% of the pan. The surface area was kind of large - Like I said, I think it was at least 24" if not 30" long. I got it at a kitchen supply place (Pat, you can go to Kittredge and get one, but I think it was like $50 10 years ago or so). It was probably about 14" wide. I still have it and can measure it to be sure. I hung it up in my new sugarhouse to remind me of where I've come from!

The other thing that I found was the heat source needed to be constant or else the gph would drop. So, I placed the tanks at a 45º angle. That gives more surface area and the tank would take longer to ice up. I also found that every 20-30 minutes I had to shake/stir to increase the pressure. You also need two tanks to feed two burners under the dual burner setup. The dual burners with the split just don't have enough BTUs. The two tank setup delivered more BTUs to the bottom of the pan.

In the end, I think surface area and heat at the most important factors. I never let the heat go down by adding boiling preheated sap and kept the flames high. I swear I went through 3-4 tanks for a gallon of syrup! It was cheaper back then though.

That's about all I remember doing but I do know that I would have two 30 gallon containers full and still collecting sap over the weekend and would finish by Sunday evening. I think I also remember spending about 2-3 hours in the kitchen finishing it because it would get too shallow for the pan so I guess that needs to be added in the calculation. 80/20=4 gph.

Dave

p.s. Let me know how you make out with the sap...I got my pump all ready!

[Tomahawk]

Hey Dave, the picture of your old setup looks awesome, I'm jealous. But the pictures of your new place are AMAZING, congrats!

I did some boiling yesterday, the weather was perfect, 67 degrees, no wind. I followed your tips and tricks, things went MUCH better.

I preheated sap on the stove inside so I could dump HOT sap into the fryer outside, it worked very well. That was the firxt time I ever preheated, it's a good trick and doesn't steam up the house.

I burned off about 12 gallons in 5 or so hours. My rate was up over 2 gallons per hour which is a HUGE improvement for me. It needs about 10 more minutes of boiling to be syrup, I'm going to finish it on the stove indoors today.

It looks like I'll end up with between around 50 ounces of syrup total for the year. And that's fine. I have alot more sap but I think I'm done.

I also, pulled a big/heavy block of ice out of my storage tank that likely made my sugar content much higher.

Thanks to everyone for all the help and support and good luck with your season!

[Tomahawk]

Pulled 3 of my 6 taps today. Flow was very slow on one and had stopped altogether on the other two.

I don't know if it's because it got a little colder (high 30's/low 40's) or if the trees are done for the year?

Unless I get some unforeseen motivation, I'm done for the year with about 50 ounces of syrup made. I'll probably dump the rest of my sap.

Any suggestions as to what to do with left over sap so I don't feel so wasteful?

[Tomahawk]

In case anyone is keeping track or just for your edification:

My maples have budded.

The buds appeared yesterday and have doubled in size as of today. The sap flow has stopped on some trees and is just barely dripping on others.

Plan accordingly making adjustments for your latitude.

Good luck.

[MaplePancakeMan]

I think its over here too.... way too warm 67 and rising. I'm pissed only made like 12 gallons of syrup on 86 taps

[Tomahawk]

****2010******

I'm sitting this one out but I hope everyone has a great year!!

Good luck to all my friends at MapleTrader!!

[Hurry Hill Farm]

Enjoyed Reading the conversations regarding "syrupin in the city." If you have a freezer, next year, partially freeze the sap and toss the ice (it pure water). I had a hobbyist who had 20 gallons on Tue and keep freezing sap and pitching the ice chunks and had only 5 gallons of concentrate by Fri pm and made a gallon of syrup! (Big shade trees, therefore, high sugar content) but saved him a bundle of propane.


Hurry Hill
Einboro PA