Lateral lines

[mark bolton]

At the start (top) of the lateral lines is it better to leave them closed or to leave an opening (vent). I have read conflicting reports. I think the idea of leaving them open is that there won't be a vacuum lock? I am setting up a gravity system on an incline.

[gator330]

Mark

They say to close them up. It will form its own vacum a good thing, keeps the sap running longer. I'll be doing a lot of the same this weekend. Just make shure your main is large enough for all the sap running into it. How many taps are you planing on?

[Haynes Forest Products]

you want a closed system to keep out dirt and as said naturel vacuun from sap running down hill. Plus if you were to get a clog due to wood chips or over time crud that would push down ond out you might get reverse flow out the top. You would lose the pressure that a tree produces that will push sap along.
If you over time keep adding taps and then go to vacuum you would be changing alot of tubing ends.

[mark bolton]

Thanks for the ideas. I will run 30 taps this year and just run 2 lateral lines into 2 barrels. Next year I will have approx. 125 taps running off 7 or so lateral lines into a proper main line. (at least this is the plan)
We lost about 200 red pine trees to heavy, wet snow in Dec.- they just snapped in half. So this spring/summer we will be making a log sugar house out of that wood and hope to set up the proper lines in the fall- will be a busy year.

[gator330]

Todays lesson learned. Don't go to the woods with out enough tube to run lateral lines!!!! I pulled five hundred feet of line going off my main. the longest lateral was about 60 feet of tube the rest are much shorter. I was trying to keep it around 5-8 taps per line the long one has 10. Any way I picked up 35 taps on 500 feet of tube Thats about one tape every 15 feet of tube. HERE IS MY GUESTION. Is this a good average???? Does it even matter??? I guess if it takes 30 feet to get to the next tree or ten you have to get to the next tree. Any way 400 feet of main line 500 feet of lateral. I will get 65 taps on that main line all together. Two rolls on order for next weekend Should only need one. Start putting drops in in the morning. Check grade and keep her tight for now. Can't do much more then that till the next shipment of tube shows up. Was a good day. Still to many trips up that hill.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Gator,
35 taps per roll would be a very good average in my bush. Best areas I might get 40 but there are others where I will only get 20 taps from a roll. No matter what I do in this business, it takes twice as long as I think it is gonna and it takes 2x the materials. Do you suppose I might get 2x the syrup I expect:) ?

[ennismaple]

35 taps per 500' roll of 5/16 is what I budget for and is generally pretty accurate.

[gator330]

For once a "good average" !!!!! Also thanks for the budget idea. I ran back out and instaled my first drops on two lines it went well. Who ever it was that said a two handed tool was the most valuble thing you could have for a tool shure was right!!!!

[gator330]

Got out this morning and ended up setting 38 drops on that 500 feet of lateral line, not to bad I would say. Noticed a few things that raised a question about 5 trees that could take a tap that the line is close to but not close enough for a drop. HERE IS MY QUESTION. If I "T" into my Lateral for a short little run to pick up a tree or two. Would this be what you call a "Branch Line"??? Can't see why it wouldn't be ok to do this, if for just a short run. Kinda like a extra long drop.

Do the Maples stop???? Every line that I got to the end of I looked further into the woods and thought. Why didn't I go to that tree? Funny how yesterday I didn't see it. Some day I'm going to walk my woods and get a count on every maple in there. For fun this may be a bad idea. I'll want to put a hole in every one of them!!!!!

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Gator,
You are supposed to put a hole in every one of them. Don't waste the precious maple resource!

[gator330]

I know thats the goal!!! But five kids a farm and a full time job not to mention a 19"x39" evaporator doesn't lend time for 2500 taps!!!! Maybe if I put a pre heater on that 19x39?????

[maple flats]

If you still have 5 kids at home you should be able to handle the hills better than me. I too find that I make too many trips up and sown the steep hills. My kids are all grown and don't help old dad put up tubing (although i did get 3 hrs from my oldest last year to put up 700' of 3/4 mainline and support wire along a roadside). I have to hire help when I need it. I strung 3 more laterals today on a 45-50 degree slope for much of it. This week I will get a count on how many I put in this year and decide if I will have $ and time to do any more.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Tap em all! Keep the kids out of trouble:)

[gator330]

The ones that want to help can't, the ones that can, won't. Youngest 3 oldest 16 this summer. 5 and 8 went to the woods with me yesterday and took of on a set of deer tracks. Thought I left the coon hound home???? They had fun made it to the top better then me??? Wayne county drumlin no matter which way you go it's up hill!!!

[gator330]

I know i have seen it in here a time or two and I beleave it was Brandon that said it. He has lines with 35 to 45 taps on them, gravity??? How long are these laterals???? I just got in two 500 foot rolls of 5/16 tube. I need one to finish up my 75 tape tube system for this year, Several short laterals. I'm also in a spot that if I head north with the other from the top of my main line I could pick up an easy fourty more.

[gator330]

I found it it, It was Brandon and he said 45 on gravity 700' long. I should have ordered more tube!!!!! At that rate I could pick up a few hundred more this year!!!!! Just quit thinking, right now, stop it your done, all done!!!!!!!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

One disclaimer I will mention in reference to several of my lateral lines having 40 to 45 taps on them as I have a lot of slope on most of them. The lateral that is serving the mainline may not have a lot of slope to it, but the lines that feed it are sloped pretty good and in 700', I may have 50' or more in total elevation drop. I need to take a GPS sometime and see exactly what I have. I hope to get a Garmin CSX60 this summer, so it will probably be a lot more accurate than my old Magellan. I think it would work fine if you have less slope as I have one line that has aprox 30 taps on it and is has probably about 2% slope as it is nearly flat. I tap the trees off of a step laddder and the end taps are close to 10' off of the ground so I can maintain slope and it is close to 500' long.

[maple flats]

WVM, try an experiment. When the sap is running fairly well, pull one of your lower taps on any of your longer runs and see how high the sap shoots into the air. This is the result of putting pressure ON the tap hole you just pulled the tap from. This reduces your potential. With the recommended number of taps no sap will shoot up into the air from a lower open tap.
Dave

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Dave,

Before I changed over about everything to this before last season, I got as much sap as I had ever gotten last season and made more syrup than I ever had last year and it wasn't the best of seasons, but I had one week where I got 2300 gallon of sap in 5 days not counting what ran on the ground. The lower part of my lateral lines before it dumps has no taps on it. I may have the last 300' with no taps on it, just lateral lines dumping into it with the taps well above it. Maybe you are right, maybe not, but one this is for sure the sap quality is much better this way and I can give up a little sap for a lot better quality sap if I am losing a little sap.

[ejmaple]

this is my first year with tubing, so i've spent some time on mapetrader researching, and would like to thank all the users. i installed 75 taps on gravity, normal lateral into main closed system, and taped the other day, seems to be working fine for current weather conditions. i have a few groups of 4 to 6 large trees along the road, so i decided to run tubing for each group. i ran a closed system, 5/16 only for each group of 4 to 6 trees, most trees have 3 taps, and the lines are tight with plenty of pitch. after tapping about midday i went to go see how they ran. every line was just dripping out like you would see from one tap, but each line was compleatly full some even were weeping out the taps. i asumed it was a vac. lock so i cut one line and instantaly the line cleared. so i guess iam confused on why this isn't an issue for others

thank you ed

[ennismaple]

this is my first year with tubing, so i've spent some time on mapetrader researching, and would like to thank all the users. i installed 75 taps on gravity, normal lateral into main closed system, and taped the other day, seems to be working fine for current weather conditions. i have a few groups of 4 to 6 large trees along the road, so i decided to run tubing for each group. i ran a closed system, 5/16 only for each group of 4 to 6 trees, most trees have 3 taps, and the lines are tight with plenty of pitch. after tapping about midday i went to go see how they ran. every line was just dripping out like you would see from one tap, but each line was compleatly full some even were weeping out the taps. i asumed it was a vac. lock so i cut one line and instantaly the line cleared. so i guess iam confused on why this isn't an issue for others

thank you ed


Ed - That is exactly what a closed gravity tubing system will do - it will drip slowly but steadily. It cannot air lock because the tree releases gases along with the sap. All the research says that closed gravity tubing will produce more sap (something like 30% more) over the duration of the season that an open or vented system.

[ejmaple]

thank you ennismaple i appreciate the response.

[maple flats]

allowing it to vent just lets bacteria get an earlier start healing the tap hole and drying it out. Do not vent.