B grade

[Maplewalnut]

Has anyone purposedly tried to make B grade ? I have alot of people waiting for B and will only buy B. Obviously I won't have it for 6 weeks or more by mother nature standards. I guess I could just heat a batch let it sit around heat it again and so forth. Any ideas?

[Riverdale]

Haven't done so on purpose, but I've been cleaned out of it this year. People I work with have bought it all, use it to mix with yogurt, who knows what else? Can't complain about empty shelves!

[RileySugarbush]

I've missed the flavor of grade B myself. Has anyone tried recycling near syrup back through the flue pan at a rate that increase the sugar content too much? Seems like that would simulate the long caramelizing time of batch cooking.

[MaplePancakeMan]

Could always put near syrup in a pot on the stove in a small batch and keep adding a little more water as it nears syrup.

[Jeff E]

What about leaving sap sit at room temp and letting it start to get cloudy, than cooking down a batch.

I can't believe we're talking about how to make grade B out of Grade A!
I guess the customer is always right, even when their wrong:twisted:

[Maplewalnut]

I sell 3x as much Grade A dark/B grade than I do light and medium. Its all about flavor. People will take medium as a last resort but want nothing to do with the light fancy. Even for lollipops I mix in a little B for flavor. I price it all the same so it doesn't matter to me!

[RileySugarbush]

I remember learning about "stack burn" long ago, referring to the darkening of syrup if you pack bottles in cases while still hot from bottling. Supposedly it darkens the syrup since is stays hot for a long time.

I wonder if it enriches the flavor too?

I'm going to take two bottles of similar syrup and use one as a control, put one in the oven at 200°F for a few hours.

Predictions???

[Haynes Forest Products]

Was talking to Roth Sugar Bush and asked about stack burn and Dawn said that was a problem with metal containers not glass. I did make alot of dark syrup last year and I wish I could say It was planned. On my float box between pans there is a slide valve I left closed and went to collect and the wife was running things. both syrup pans carmeled up and started to burn. She got it stoped with water and the off switch. Simmerd with new sap and filterd and it was the best stuff I ever had.
Now when I want good dark grade I let the syrup get to 4 points over and drawoff and store. I let the syrup fill back up to 4 points and then add to the first syrup and let it cook. I close the valve between the flue and finish pans and let it cook down and let it bubble up. Buy the time I get done the flue pan is starting to make syrup.
This year we plan on cooking out side in a single pot and let the kids keep a fire going and batch cook over a few days and collect with buckets and let the ash and wood smoke flavor it. I think it will be good.

[markcasper]

You could take medium amber, dump it on your basement floor, sprinkle a few wood ashes on top. Add water, mop it up and reboil it. You will have Grade B. I am not being funny.....when you think of the crappy sap that you make B and C out of and all of the bugs and insects, it would literally be no different. Since its boiled, there is no risk of bacterial contamination.

In all honesty, you could add water, let the diluted syrup sit around for 4-5 days in room temperature and then reboil it. You should have B. The key is to let the sugar solution start to ferment before boiling it to proper density.

Don't let it sit too long as it will get ropy/stringy and then worthless. As Jeff said, I cannot believe there is a post like this. When I started 25 years ago, you couldn't hardly give B syrup away. It continued like this until 5 years ago.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Mark; You could take a crap in it to but that wont add to what makes A good sweet heavy tasteing Grade B C D whatever you call it dark syrup. I cant believe they came out with radial tires either but they did.
The color and taste is derived by cooking it not throwing junk in it. So if I hear you right if you want your steak medium to well your better off throwing it on the ground and letting it rot instead of cooking it.

[Beweller]

The 1958 manual, pages 45-47, gives directions for making "High Flavored Maple Syrup".

I think the product was somewhat beyond grade B.

[Clan Delaney]

Now, I didn't have a grading kit to measure against, but I'm pretty sure that the first batch I bottled last year was medium to dark. 'Course, it boiled in the same pot for danged near a week as I added more and more sap. So, maybe time is your magic ingredient.

Having boiled sap that sat for just one too many days... I hope I never have to deal with a stringy mess like that ever again. It was like phlegm. Well, great tasting maple phlegm.

[PATheron]

All the years I made syrup on my flatpan it was always dark but everyone loved it. It was just from cooking it forever. You could run your pans deep and just let it boil forever kind of like doing it on a flatpan. That will make it dark and you wont have to use cloudy sap to do it I dont think. If you dont have a ton of sap just maybe fill the pans pretty deep and let it simmer. Just a thought. Im not laughing either becouse last year dad and I made some pretty light stuff for a long time and we were both like when are we going to start making syrup worth putting on a pancake. Theron

[benchmark]

Well no kidding you couldn't give it away, mixing it on the basement floor with wood ashes and bugs. :)

[Clan Delaney]

Mark; You could take a crap in it to but that wont add to what makes A good sweet heavy tasteing Grade B C D whatever you call it dark syrup. I cant believe they came out with radial tires either but they did.
The color and taste is derived by cooking it not throwing junk in it. So if I hear you right if you want your steak medium to well your better off throwing it on the ground and letting it rot instead of cooking it.

Disclaimer: We here at the Maple Trader do not actually recommend the use of poo in the production of any grade of syrup. We have no official opinion on radial tires. :)



How to make dark syrup? Make syrup. Add dark. (Please make sure your dark is food grade).

[KenWP]

Okay lets put this in language a guy from out west who took all summer to even find maple trees let alone know what to do with them. I will be makeing syrup by the batch system. I only have 30 trees or so of at least 4 different kinds and will be saveing up sap for a few days untill there is enough to make it worth boiling or a day off which ever comes first. From what you guys are saying I can expect dark syrup because of batch boiling and also because it has to sit for a few days and also because even keeping it in a snow bank it does get some bacterial growth in it. My point is will it pass inspection by a wife or will I be eating a lot of pancakes and such by myself.

[Clan Delaney]

Okay lets put this in language a guy from out west who took all summer to even find maple trees let alone know what to do with them. I will be makeing syrup by the batch system. I only have 30 trees or so of at least 4 different kinds and will be saveing up sap for a few days untill there is enough to make it worth boiling or a day off which ever comes first. From what you guys are saying I can expect dark syrup because of batch boiling and also because it has to sit for a few days and also because even keeping it in a snow bank it does get some bacterial growth in it. My point is will it pass inspection by a wife or will I be eating a lot of pancakes and such by myself.

A batch brother!!

We've gotta stick together. This place is just full of guys with their flue pans and their stainless steel and their, their... flue pans. I tell ya, it gets scary sometimes!

[Haynes Forest Products]

If you decide to let your sap ferment to the point that when you boil it its on the verge of stringy/goopy is one degree from Bear Bait. I find it funny I find more and more producers touting how they take extra special sap and spend all kinds of time boiling sap the old fashion way and making Gormet syrup. they sell it in limited amounts. They charge a high price for the syrup and a cool looking bottle. Sounds like most of us agree that alot of our consumers like grade B.

[markcasper]

Hanynes, I think you got the medium and rare thing mixed up. Throwing medium steak on the floor to get to well done is the same as mopping syrup on the floor to change the density from 66 to 67! NOT to change it from A to B,C, or F.

[Haynes Forest Products]

well moving on with the discussion I think we all have alot of passion in what we do. When I baught my first real set of pans 2x6 Engish tin that were from the 20s I was afraid to scrub them clean for fear of making a hole in them all I ever made was dark syrup. I can say that I was proud of every drop that came out of that evaporator. I filterd with a wool filter bag and bottled and had my fair share of sedement.
We have a big producer in the area and their moto is IF IT AINT LIGHT IT AINT RIGHT. I think that is a condesending way of treating all other producers. Over time as my equipment and practices have improved I make lite syrup every year does that make me a better producer? I dont think so. Having a faster car doesnt make someone a better driver. I would go out on a limb and say its harder to make Sam Adams beer that Miller Lite.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Lobstafari: why was the syrup you made junk. I can only think of one time I would consider syrup I made junk and that was becouse I made a bottler that ruined it. I like my Coors Light and Fat Tire both ends of the spectrum but good all the same.

[RileySugarbush]

Just because it's dark doesn't mean it's stringy junk. Early on I gave a bottle of very dark syrup to a friend and the next day he couldn't stop talking about the flavor. This wasn't a log cabin guy either. Light A is good stuff. Dark B can be a real experience. Given a choice, I would only make dark syrup.

And I pull taps and stop cooking at the slightest hint of buddy sap. Can't stand the thought of it.

[Beweller]

Per the 1958 producer's manual:

1. Boil syrup to 252 F. Reduce heat to hold at 250-255 F in a covered vessel. Steam heat recomended. Do not stir. Do not boil. Hold for 1.5-2 hours. Cool to 200 F and add approximately 3 pints of water for each gallon of original syrup. Be sure syrup is below boiling point of water before adding water. Mix with ordinary syrup to desired taste.

2. Place ordinary syrup in canning jars, light syrup prefered. Place jars in a pressure canner, lids loose, and process at 15 psi for 1.5 hours. Cool slowly, making sure syrup is below the boiling point before disturbing. Seal jars or transfer to final continer, mixing with ordinary syrup to desired taste.

[RileySugarbush]

I am definitely trying that! Thanks!

[Beweller]

http://www.nal.usda.gov/ref/usdapubs/aghandbk.htm#sortnbr

The 1958 manual.

Huh? doesn' seem to work any more.

Try going to the NAL Digital repository and searching under "maple sirup" for the years 1957 through 1959.

[RileySugarbush]

Well I gave method # 2 a try last night. I took some medium amber from last year and held some out as a control comparison and with the rest I cooked it in a pressure cooker at 15 psi for an hour. I had to cut it shorter because the cooker ran out of water. I figured that would be ok since I didn't start with light syrup. Note that the syrup does not boil in this method since the cooker holds it a high pressure, so there is no need to dilute back to syrup.

Results:

The syrup came out slightly darker
Light, fluffy sugar sand appeared
Flavor is different from the control, stronger and with a different character. It is questionable if it is better or not.

I am not totally convinced, but this is worth trying again.

[Beweller]

The manual says that the formation of "caramel" flavor should be avoided. It states that the presence of large amounts of water favor development of "Caramel" flavor. Thus the first method which reduces the water content to about 10 percent before the extended heating.

It also says that the presence of some caramel accelerates the formation of more. Thus, the second method should use "only light colored sirup".

The second method is covered by an expired patent--George S. Whitby, 1936, 2,054,873.

I note that the two processes can be combined to varying degrees. Boil the syrup to a higher density, then hold at temperature in the pressure cooker.

The manual suggests treating to a 4:1 ratio, measured by diluting the "high flavor" syrup with colorless sucrose syrup, at standard density, until the color matches that of the starting syrup.

The 1958 manual is available at the NAL digital repository. Best to look it up and read the "high flavor" section in its entirety.

[RileySugarbush]

That may explain my results. Thanks.

I haven't had any luck searching in the directory.

[Beweller]

Google "nal digital repository"
Get home page. Click on "search"
Key word "maple sirup", tab
Select "agricultural handbook", tab
Limit years "1957-1959
Click "go"
1958 handbook is first item up.

Good luck

[maple flats]

I don't like to have to act like your parents but, I think you guys got way out of line in the middle of this thread. If things like this continue I think this forum is going downhill fast. Lets monitor ourselves and be proud of what we are. Remember, J.Q.Public can get into this and read too. Talk like that could hurt the name of maple producers all over. Enough said?!!!
Dave

[Clan Delaney]

Google "nal digital repository"
Get home page. Click on "search"
Key word "maple sirup", tab
Select "agricultural handbook", tab
Limit years "1957-1959
Click "go"
1958 handbook is first item up.

Good luck

Got 'em!

Maple sirup producers manual - Part 1 of 2 (http://naldr.nal.usda.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/ah134001.xml?ZyActionD=ZyDocument&Client=National%20Agricultural%20Library%20Digital %20Repository&Index=AH%7CAH2%7CAIB%7CBIC%7CBooks%7CCirc%7CERS%7C FVMNR%7CJAR%7CMP%7CPI%7CROS%7CRural%7CTB%7CTB1%7CT B2%7CUSDA%5FDiv%5FBulletin%7CWPC%7CYOA1%7CYOA2&Query=maple%20sirup&Time=&EndTime=&SearchMethod=1&TocRestrict=n&Toc=&TocEntry=&QField=Source%5EAgriculture%20Handbook%7CYear%5E%3 E%3D1957%3A%3C%3D1959&QFieldYear=&QFieldMonth=&QFieldDay=&UseQField=Source%7CYear&IntQFieldOp=1&ExtQFieldOp=1&File=%5C%5CNALDR%5CDIGITAL%5CZYFILES%5CINDEXDATA%5 CALL2%5CXML%5C2007%5C00000000%5Cah134001.xml&User=ANONYMOUS&Password=&SortMethod=h%7C-&MaximumDocuments=20&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r85g16/r85g16/x150y150g16/i500&Display=hpfrw&DefSeekPage=f&SearchBack=ZyActionL&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results%20page&MaximumPages=1&ZyEntry=1&SeekPage=f)

Maple sirup producers manual - Part 2 of 2 (mainly photographs) (http://naldr.nal.usda.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/ah134057.xml?ZyActionD=ZyDocument&Client=National%20Agricultural%20Library%20Digital %20Repository&Index=AH%7CAH2%7CAIB%7CBIC%7CBooks%7CCirc%7CERS%7C FVMNR%7CJAR%7CMP%7CPI%7CROS%7CRural%7CTB%7CTB1%7CT B2%7CUSDA%5FDiv%5FBulletin%7CWPC%7CYOA1%7CYOA2&Query=maple%20sirup&Time=&EndTime=&SearchMethod=1&TocRestrict=n&Toc=&TocEntry=&QField=Source%5EAgriculture%20Handbook%7CYear%5E%3 E%3D1957%3A%3C%3D1959&QFieldYear=&QFieldMonth=&QFieldDay=&UseQField=Source%7CYear&IntQFieldOp=1&ExtQFieldOp=1&File=%5C%5CNALDR%5CDIGITAL%5CZYFILES%5CINDEXDATA%5 CALL2%5CXML%5C2007%5C00000000%5Cah134057.xml&User=ANONYMOUS&Password=&SortMethod=h%7C-&MaximumDocuments=20&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r85g16/r85g16/x150y150g16/i500&Display=hpfrw&DefSeekPage=f&SearchBack=ZyActionL&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results%20page&MaximumPages=1&ZyEntry=1&SeekPage=f)

[RileySugarbush]

Yes, I got them too. Interesting stuff. Thanks!

[Beweller]

Maple Flats,

What is it you object to? That some want to produce a (pure) product the customers want?

Have you ever considered why a nearly tastless product is the highest grade? Surely not because the maple flavor is objectionable?

The best guess (best in my opinion) for the current grading system is that it has been inherited from the past when maple sugar was the (cheapest) available source of sugar in the region. As a sweetner, pure and simple, a strong maple flavor was often not desired. Hence the emphasis on a light, nearly flavorless product.

At last consumers have began to request a product with our treasured flavor.

[RileySugarbush]

I think the objection was the posts about crap on the floor.

[Beweller]

It is interesting to look at the Centre Acer Project 483. It comes awfully close to saying the distinctive maple flavor is derived from the bacteria present in the sap.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Dont blame me. Im all for the Grade B and the art of making it. and doing it in the evaporator. Beweller has it right its what the sap brings to the party.

[Turtlecreek]

I use a turkey fryer and a ss sink and all I can make is light amber maybe bordering on medium. I guess that even if you use the flat pan method it doesn't gurantee that you will get grade b. I really think if you watch what you are doing no matter what method you use you will get light amber.

[Russell Lampron]

When I first started making syrup everyone wanted fancy or medium. My best sellers now are A dark and B. I am lucky here in NH because anything darker than A dark that still has good flavor is considered grade B. Two seasons ago I started out making A dark and it got darker from there. My father who was an old time sugar maker said that I would never be able sell that dark stuff and that he used to stop making syrup when it got darker than A medium. All I had to do was give someone a taste and the usual response was "WOW you made this" followed by an order for a half gallon or more. That was some of the best tasting syrup that I have ever made and it would have been a shame if I had sell it as bulk.

[Russell Lampron]

Yeah Jeremy I've got some customers like that. They come and drink the boiling sodas and keep tasting the syrup until the right batch comes out. I usually get it at the last or next to last boil. Problem is that was the stuff that I used to save for myself before everyone wanted dark syrup.

What the state inspector told me was that the syrup could be as dark as used motor oil and still called grade B if it tasted good.

[Russell Lampron]

Jeremy will do. I always think of you when I am driving through Limington. I'ld like to check out your set up someday too.

[samhell]

I make a grade A dark (or possibly B) that is very popular with my customers. I tend to run my syrup pan deep and flood it with sap when it gets close to syrup. I do this a few times a day and have just one big draw off late in the day.
I think this diluting and concentrating of the syrup gets me that dark syrup with a great maple taste. Probably not the textbook way to make syrup, but oh well.

[Haynes Forest Products]

SamHell: Yes it is the way to make it. Im glad we are getting back to the GOOD OLD DAYS of making syrup that tastes and looks like maple syrup.

OK lets hear about the name

[samhell]

as in "what in samhell am I doing in this maple business?"

[Haynes Forest Products]

My mother had two favorite sayings....
Whare the Sam Hell have you been" and "Your name will be Mudd" if you do that.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

We don't have grading regulations in WV either, so anything that is dark regardless of how dark if it has good flavor is going to be labeled as extra dark. To me as a consumer, I would think of Grade B as an inferior product and extra dark sounds better. To me, Grade B is a dark with some strong or some off flavor, not a good tasting table grade syrup that is darker in color. I think syrup needs to be sold and labeled on the basis of taste, not color and would be nice to see the industry go to that but I am sure it won't ever happen because people with mersh syrup as Jeremey puts it or something that is not table grade will try to sell it as that and this dishonesty will hurt the industry too.

[Turtlecreek]

I have finally made a medium bordering on dark amber. I did eveything the same as last year, I guess the trees are going to dictate what I'm making this year. I use the batch method that is supposed to give you darker syrup, but all I ever have made has been light. I never let the boil stop since I ingect colder sap through a coffeee can with a small hole drilled in it and the sap is preheated above the main evaporator.

[royalmaple]

Holy heck-

Everyone wants to make grade B now. THat is great. Well I am going to have a boiling school to teach you the proper way to make 'Mersh.

it is not for the faint hearted, pregnant, or people on serious medication.

All others are welcome to attend. My classes run normally from Beginning of March till Late April. I should also have samples if all goes well.

Now there's a cool kids club. Heck I didn't know of that. I want to join. Jeremy if we can figure out who's in the group I'll see if we can both get applications. I think it is like when I pledged my fraternity in college. Lots of pain and agony but worth it in the end.

I can't wait to go to a seminar and have someone raise their hand and say I know you guys always talk about the light syrup stuff, but what can we as producers do to make the really dark stuff that people want?

I may have to excuse myself.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_15_27.gif

[Maplewalnut]

How many people probably didn't even read this thread out of tradition. Here's a Pa guy ASKING how to make B syrup when some people probably threw it out before last year

Well boys and girls success has been had!

Since I had lower sugar content on this first run, I decided to give it a shot. Here is the successful recipe. Made 5 gallons of very good tasting robust B.

1.)Collect sap over a 4 day period.
2.)Start with a rig you have never boiled on
3.)Start boiling on day three of collecting
4.)Boil for an hour and then realize your hot float has a hole in it, shut down rig immediately. Fix Float
5.)Restart the next day and run back and forth into the bush multiple times to make sure releaser is not sticking
6.)Finally get a good boil and get pans sweetened. Shutdown for night
7.) The next morning have your 7 year old son walk by the drawoff valve, get his jacket caught, open the valve by accident and dump 3 gallons on the sugarhouse floor.
8.)Re-sweeten pans and establish gradient
9.) Boil remaining sap
10.)Draw off all that is in syrup pan and finish on turkey fryer
11.) Filter out remaining sludge and bottle.

Enjoy

Mike

[Haynes Forest Products]

You started to scare me with the dumping the syrup on the ground to make Grade B. I think both Markcasper and I are relieved to find out thats not the case. I have my draw of valve mounted so the handle is stright up and needs to be pushed back to get it to open for that very reason. Its the best way for me. They do make saftey handles that need to have a spring loaded coller pulled up to be able to move the lever.

[Maplewalnut]

For the record, the stuff on the floor was thrown out. This step could be eliminated if the other recipe steps are followed. LOL

Haynes..Good suggestion on the handle position

[Haynes Forest Products]

The valve on my filter press has the type of handle Im speaking of. The 3 way valve cant go into the bypass mode without lifting the coller. I would also recommend that you take the handles off the flue drains if youngens are around.

[royalmaple]

Mike-

You missed the boat, you should have gotten out a piece of clean paper towel and wiped the floor and wrung it out into the syrup pan.

Didn't jim tell you anything about running alice? He should have told you that for sure.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Remember there is always the family to think about.

[Beweller]

I have also tried method 2. I set up to autoclave a sample--already B--for 1.5 hours at 15 psi. But I got busy doing something, lost tract of the time, and ended up autoclaving for 2.5 hours.

Result: No change in appearance. The flavor was definately stronger, but did not strike me as maple flavor. Again, I sensed a slight bitter after taste. So far, one taster prefered the autoclaved sample to the starting syrup, one could detect no difference, and two have prefered the starting syrup.

[mapleman3]

Mike.What is it with floats... mine has developed a slow leak also, I have to remember to drain it at night.... I thing the Algier Float leaks on the top at the square stock weld.... uggghhh... oh well I will labor through it for this season.
Funny way to make B though... it goes in the books as "Hey Remember that time" ?

I feel your pain on learning a new rig!!! I'm like a 1st grader but learning quickly!!!

[Amber Gold]

To make grade B can't you just leave it in the syrup pan and boil it longer? I tend to overboil and make a Dark Amber or Grade B.

[Maplewalnut]

Jim...I may be up to 3rd grade now but I got a jump start on you being further south. I did some research on algier floats and unless you are lucky and find a used stock one, the closest is Grimm and will need some modifications. I to am making due and waiting until after the season to change out. It's what makes it interesting, hows your back slugging all the wood every couple minutes?

[Beweller]

the discussion of flavor in

uvm.edu/~pmrc/off-flavor2.pdf

is instructive.