Syrup in the middle channel

[danno]

I was fighting this a bit last year, so maybe I can get some ideas before the season starts. I like to take my syrup all the way to syrup in the syrup pan.

Last season, especially if the syrup pan was beginning to niter up, I was having a heck of time with the middle channels of my syrup pan reaching syrup before my draw off channel. If I began my draw at 221 degrees, I would sometimes reach 227 or 228 degrees before the temp would begin to drop.

I would continue the draw with some thin syrup so that the entire draw was at proper density. This caused some pretty big draws. Down side - when you are drawing at 227 or 228, things are a tad hairy and pan scortch is not far away.

Starting the draw at 217 or 218 never worked for me - as temps in the middle of the draw never seemed to go higher.

How do I keep syrup out of the center channels? Why is this happening?

[michiganfarmer]

I have similar issues. I set my draw off to the proper temp, around 218, and see temperature rise as the draw progresses like you do. I just go with the flow. I continuously check the density with a hydrometer, and stop the draw when the density thins. Sometimes I might have another draw just a couple minutes after too.

I go by the hydrometer. The temp guage is just a recomendation. I use it only to tell when I should start checking it with my hydrometer. It wouldnt concern me if I was drawing off at 218, and the temps never seem to go higher. If your hydrometer says its syrup, draw it off.

[maplwrks]

What I'm going to tell you may seem a little far fetched, and I haven't done this myself but , here goes. Last weekend, I listened to Brad Gilliland from Leader talk about boiling. This scenario was brought up. He said, (this is where you will say you're crazy) to put 2 drops of Atmos 300 defoamer at the drawoff and 2 drops at the cutout at the end of the divider of the second channel. He said that the syrup will migrate toward the defoamer. He also said that you may need to do this a couple of times to get things going. I know what you guys are going through, as I've boiled on a couple of reverse flow rigs in my days and have done lots of scooping. The other thing that I've done is to draw a couple of hydrometer cups full of syrup and dumped them into the 3rd divider to help thin the syrup and to get it to move toward the drawoff....Using the atmos300 to get the syrup to move is kind of intriguing though!

[cncaboose]

I've had this problem a few times too. When it was going on I added a scoop or 2 of hot sap from the first side of the flu pan to the middle section of the sap pan. This seems to help restore the normal gradient and push the syrup thru. That doesn't prevent the problem but treats it. To prevent it if you are having the most trouble with your first drawoff of the day, you may want to draw off a gallon or so of the near syrup when you finish each day into a clean pail. Once things are boiling nicely the next boil, add it back in near the drawoff. That will help restore the normal gradient going thru the syrup pan compartments that is largely lost when your pans sit overnight.

[maplecrest]

having a 6x4 front pan i have this problem all the time. i learned 16 seasons ago that if you put the defoamer at the draw off the syrup goes for it. i found out the hard way. i put defoamer behind the syrup and it ran back to the center of the pan. what brad says works. the other thing i do is start out a little shallow in the front pan. at about 210 degrees i adjust the float to add more sap to the flue pan and front pan. i boil on a drop flue.the other thing i do is keep two pails of hot sap from flue pan at my feet. when syrup is not where i want it i put a scoop of sap in center till behind the syrup not on top! [ it will go to bottom and burn]. and add sap until the syrup is in the draw off till or till and a half. i make syrup in one and a half channels most of the time. even if you delute it too much it will come right back in the draw off channel. the biggest challenge is switching sides while boiling to keep niter down that i use a lot of sap out of the pails

[802maple]

What Brad said is right on, I also when starting, always shut down the flue pan from the syrup pan and when it gets boiling real well and headed toward syrup I open the valve between them and it pushes it to the drawoff.

[mapleman3]

802... Thats fine if you don't forget to open it up... talking from experience now ;)

[michiganfarmer]

having a 6x4 front pan i have this problem all the time. i learned 16 seasons ago that if you put the defoamer at the draw off the syrup goes for it.

That is interesting!

[danno]

Now that it's mentioned - I remember hearing about the defoamer trick. I'll have to try it.

Also, makes sense. My hardest boils tend to be in the center two columns so that's where I usually add the defoamer - thus drawing more syrup into the center columns, thus increasing the boil rate in those two columns .... and on and on.

[dano2840]

for the wood fired guys, even firing helps with this, maybe even a smidge hotter on your draw off side right up against the side of the arch

[jrthe3]

i would check the rig for level and checking my front pan to see how bad it is warped up in the middle my old rig would do that cause my front pan was warped so bad sap would be a half inch deep on the side and a quarter inch deep in the middle

[maple marc]

The syrup pan on my 2x4 is slightly warped, with the middle channel running about 1/4" more shallow than the sides. Maybe this is leading me also to making syrup in the middle sometimes. Question: if my middle is slightly bowed up, can I knock it or pound it down without damaging it? This is a welded pan.

Thanks,
Marc

[802maple]

Mostly what is causing you to make syrup in the middle pan is the design of all reverse flow pans, They all do it, because that is where your most intense heat is unless you fire to your drawoff side. Also running your syrup level to deep will cause it to make syrup in the middle by having to boil to long between draws.

[H. Walker]

What I try to do to keep the most heat and thus the syrup to the draw off side is, every other firing I don't put any wood into the draw off side I just push all the remaining wood/coals to that side and load the new wood in the other side. If done quick enough I won't even lose the boil on the draw off side.

[maple flats]

I have not had any problems. I run my syrup pan at about 1.5-2" deep. I used to run it 3/4" but things chenge too fast at the depth. 2" still boild very well for me and I have longer to respond to things that happen.

[Mackdaddy]

I have been told that it is a fact, put a drop or two of defoamer every 30 min or so and the sugar will naturally follow. If you are making syrup in the second compartment, put some defoamer at the exit of your second compartment and then again at you draw off, and this should not only eliminate you problem put also help you make better quality smaller batches. I am going to put this into action myself this year to prove the theory.

[Mackdaddy]

Primarily it does belong in the flue pan, and if done properly should eliminate the need in the syrup pan, but if there is a problem with foam running over in the syrup pan, adding defoamer at the draw off would be just fine. Remember, a drop, not a splash of defoamer. As far as effecting the taste, defoamer is a highly concentrated formula of vegetabel oils. Should not leave anymore of a residual taste than butter.

[mapleman3]

You should only have to add to the syrup pan in emergency, Don't get in the habit of doing so, if you add on a regular basis there, you will end up with an off flavor. keep your levels right and add in the back pan you should be fine. as far as making syrup in the middle, moving your firing on side or the other should help. also at startup take some syrup off at the draw box, and let some less syrup in from the flue pan,and get the gradient moving again... then slowley add that near syrup in as the rig is getting really going.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I wouldn't think that 1 to 2 drops of syrup added near the drawoff to every gallon of syrup is ever going to affect the taste or leave any visible residue to the finished product. Never saw any problem with my syrup using it as needed.

[802maple]

Bingo, we have a winner.


Just seems like the syrup judges always remark about the taste of defoamer. I dont even use the stuff anymore, just pay attention to firing and run the pans really low, and none required.