tubing for the 1,000,000th time

[MaplePancakeMan]

As some of you know... i wasnt' going to tap this year. The itch however has made me anxious. I found a guy with about 200 taps all on a sweet slope. I want to run tubing quickly and cheaply that will get the job done. Its going to be temporary because of his preference. What do i need.


I was going to use guide wire on the mainline only? and ram in two big rods on either end to keep it taught. Then hook the saddles up to the mainline and run laterals. What i don't really get even from pictures on here is how the connections go to the tree or around the tree. What it looked like to me is the tubbing went to a tree a 'T' was placed in then went around the tree and an end line hook hooked it back to the lateral.


I've also seen where it comes up from the mainline to a 'Y' then a 'T' is placed in there somewhere on the down slope to put the tab in. Any books or really good pictures i could look at ? I think its feasible to put a makeshift system up in 2 weekends? All the trees are pretty close together.

[Haynes Forest Products]

If its temperary just use trees as your ancor point use ratchet straps for tightners. If its temperary you can zigzag the 3/4 poly threw the woods. you dont even need wire just pull tight just not so tight as to flatten the poly. Run it threw the woods pull tight then go back and level. you said that it has a good slope then put 10 taps on each latteral. I use the Y connecter for all my end trees and there made so you can put a tap on them. Start at the end tree install Y and tap next tree next tap next tree tap keep it tight and work your way to the mainline. If you dont have a tool just use a little veggy oil on the Ts and they slip together fine. Install saddles and hook up leave a little slack from the last tree so 5/16 doesnt pull on mainline.

If YOU decide that you want to tap and you want tubing You can do it on the cheap and quick. The key words you used was its coming down at the end of the season and you have good slope and your in a hurry dont get caught up with making it perfect JUST make it work

[Haynes Forest Products]

Now how do you do it quick and easy

yea bags in the mainline are bad..........alot of Y branches in the woods prop up

mainline strecher....plug end of pipe or fold over onto itself and tape.

tape end of ratchet strap hook 4ft from end. Then with the strap put a series of 1/2 hitches over the 3/4 poly about 4 of them and tape the strap at the end secure to tree. This will tighten on poly and wont pull off do the same at the tank just dont plug it.

Install all lats tap as you go dont worry about bing super tight and then install saddles and have a beer

[NH Maplemaker]

MaplePancakeMan,If this is going to be very temporary, You can get a way with running your main with out wire. Over the years I have seen a lot of black pipe with out wire!! Just tie it off good on one end and jack it up good from the other end ! Good rope and some half hitches and electrical tape to hold rope in place on each end. Walk the line back up the hill,Push it right to left as need and tie with more good rope! Will last a long time. Now if this was going to be permanent that wold be different!!
I have a small bush that I tap and every year or so the land owner says "well this maybe the last year" ! The mains are up with out wire and I don't dare to put money in to it and do it right just to get kick out !! Been five years!

[Haynes Forest Products]

NH and I like them there tape and 1/2 hitches. If you aint got tape in your pocket in the woods you aint reparin.

[NH Maplemaker]

Haynes, That is a true statement!!!!

[Russell Lampron]

Duct tape, electrical tape, Teflon tape and flagging tape!

[MaplePancakeMan]

Thanks guys. Got any pictures of the tubing at the trees. Does every tree have the tubing wrap around it?

I have a huge spool of electrical rope,wire twine. Its the stuff they use to pull wire through conduit really strong, would that work. Some guy left it here a while back.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Thats great for tying up the kids but it wont last that long in the woods. It has less strength as far as holding up mainline over long spans strong heavey wire is the best thing. If you look on everyones threads you will see tubing in the bush. When your in the woods all the trees are helter skelter so zig and zag is the name of the game. Its the only way to get them tight and have them stay. If you had a line of trees stright as a arrow you would still weave it between the trees

[Clan Delaney]

I dug around for some member's pics MPM, and found a few.

Here's how Sugarmaker did it:
pic (http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee170/Sugarmaker/SIDEviewofCasbohmloop.jpg)
pic (http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee170/Sugarmaker/2CDLendringsandloopoftubingCDLhook.jpg)

PATheron's got a lot of pics of tubing here (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc309/patheron/). You might see something that helps.

[Sugarmaker]

Maple Pancake Man
Thats the PAT. PENDING pictures of my tightening system the CEC-LOOP that allows you to get all the sags out of the 5/16 short run tubing system and take the tubing down and put it back up next year. We use this on road side maples. It costs a little extra to build the LOOP and HOOK system but were worth it:) This is the first year we will try to put it up as a system.
I only run about 15 - 20 taps on a line some folks may do more. I run 5% grade. Trees should be about 30 feet apart max. much beyond that and is tough to keep the sags out of 5/16. I really cant help on the main line and saddles and "Y"'s as I don't have any of those. OH yea using 30P type tubing.

Chris

[maple flats]

Do not wrap the tubing around the tree. At your highest tree on any lateral use either a end ring or a Y fitting, then as you go down the hill towards work rather straight as possible but weave from the left side of one tree to the right of another. Some can be non maples. When you get to the main line, connect it with a multi fitting or saddle fitting. If you have no support wire wrap once only near the mainline to hold tension. You say the trees are in a small area, can you eliminate the main altogether? I have a few smaller sections in my woods with up to 35 taps without a mainline. I use end ring fittings, wind my way past trees to be tapped, up to 7 taps and end at a tree where the collection barrel sets. At this tree I use another end ring but this time the end will point down to drain instead of up for a tap. On smaller set ups I go directly into a barrel and for bigger ones i go into a 4 way or 6 way star which has a bushing on the bottom and this feeds into my barrel. I do this for 5 of my 7 systems, the other 2 have a mainline. To collect all of these I have a 125 gal tank on my tractor, along with my sap pump and hoses. I drive up near the barrel, set up the pump, insert hose into barrel and discharge hose into tractor tank and start the pump. When i get vac I will run all of these to the sugarhouse using mainlines and sap ladders as needed. You can make a tubing system fairly cheap if you design it not to need mainline. If sap flow potential says you should use a mainline just keep it simple.

[MaplePancakeMan]

i don't think i fully understand how the end rings or hooks work any explanations?

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Maple Pancake Man,
There are several methods of securing the 5/16 line around the end tree so that it can be pulled tight. An end ring or hook is used to form a "noose" around the tree. The end ring is basically a 5/16 plug with a ring on it for the tubing to go through. Slide the tubing through the ring far enough to go around the tree and then plug it into the end of the tubing. Pull the loop tight and stretch the tubing to the next tree. An end hook works the same except it uses a hook to go over the line rather than a ring to form the "eye" for the tubing to pass through. This makes it easier to take down during the off season for easier access to trails etc. Drawbacks to this system are a dead spot is created by the plug where sap can accumulate and spoil.

[Haynes Forest Products]

There are several methods that work. I like the Y connector that allows you to cut a peice of tubing that connects to the tips of the Y and that goes around the tree. They have barbs so you slide the tubing on. Then on the single side of the Y fitting is the sap side of the tubing and you start your run from there. you can go about 4" and put in a tap T and the off you go to the next tree. If your going to take your tubing down just cut the tube near the Y fitting and reuse it next year. just make it long so you have plenty over the years. There is no dead areas for sap to spoil or leak.
I dont see it in the cataloge they also make a Y fitting that is hollow on the center part of the Y and you use it just like I the solid fitting but it allows you to make the Bridle fitting (thats what we call them) your tap fitting also.

I know its like trying to describe a KISS concert if you never saw one...............WHAT

[MaplePancakeMan]

I think i get it Now how long can my lats be? i know a set up that would be really simple but would be hard to wash.

If i set my lats all to run to the base of the hill and connect into the main line that runs along the trail to a container. Would that work. The slope is 2/1 drop and then i would just pitch the mainline enough to make it flow to the tank.

Also rather then saddles or manifolds what about just taking a 'T' and a piece of rubber gasket from the plumbing supply store and stick it in to the mainline and secure it with tape and zip ties?

[Haynes Forest Products]

I woulnt do that. I use poly fittings from Home Depot 3/4 with a 1/2 thread for the stars. I have used the clamp on saddles in the past and Im not happy with them. What I found was if you have constant tension (pulling) on the mainline that over time the hole becomes oval and leaks. Drilling a hole smaller than the 5/16 and sticking the tube in would work but things change and they will leak over time. Plus the tubing will cause a obstruction in the main. Stars are the way to go if you put in a six way and dont use them all they make plugs that cover the unused barb fitting.

[MaplePancakeMan]

i suppose the stars give you more flexibility as to where you can run the laterals too. Thanks Haynes!

I went out there with some string and started running lats about 8-10 per line just so i can get an idea of where to put the mainline. Man is that snow tough to walk in gotta get some snow shoes

[maple flats]

That's what makes this so much fun.

[Haynes Forest Products]

You gata get snow shoes and gatters your feet will stay alot dryer. I tried it 1 year and it about killed me. Its like walking down staires in the dark and forgetting a step.

[mapleack]

Here's my take on mainline fittings. I only use the single entrance clamp on type fittings for tying in lateral lines. I used to use star fittings when we first intalled suspended tubing, but have switched to singles only. Heres a little math to explain why. First, leader 30P tubing is currently 0.114 cents per foot. If you're using a 4 way star fitting, the star is 1.69, the T fitting is 3.60 for a total of 5.29. If you tie two laterals into it, add on 30 cents for the two caps to plug off the extra two holes. This means you've spent 2.79 per lateral to tie them in. Odds are the approach angles wont be quite right and the lines may kink a little. Also you'll probably run extra 5/16 on one of the runs to get there, remember, it's 11 cents a foot.
Now for the single clamp fittings. They are 2.95 each, a 5/16 hooked connector fitting is 33 cents, for a total of 3.28 per lateral to tie in. You simply run the lateral to the closest point on the mainline, insert the hooked connector, hook it on the mainline, then add a short loop from the connector to the single clamp on fitting, this way there is no stress placed on the single clamp on fitting to bend or misshape it.
The end math of it is that if you use two of the four ports on a star, you're tying in laterals for 0.49 cents less than a single clamp fitting. BUT, back to the 0.11 a foot for tubing, if you use an extra 4.45 feet of tubing to reach your star fitting, the price is the same. Seem likely? I've seen it time and again. Different things work for differnt people, but there's the math on why I think single clamp fittings are the better bang for your buck.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Mapleack: You would have to bring logic AND math into the discusion Now Im going to rethink why I do this . I havent made a dime on this hobbie/addiction/sport and Im afraid to put a pencil to it.

[Woody]

How do you connect the laterals to a mainline when you don't use a support wire? Wouldn't the lateral put too much pressure on the saddle connection if it's hooked just to that?

[brookledge]

You can use hollow core nylon. Slide it over the 5/16 and then tie it to the mainline. that will keep all the tension off the fitting.
Keith

[Woody]

Ok thanks, I'll give that a shot.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Woody look in the catalog for the lateral to mainline clips they are made for holding the lateral at the main line too keep the tension of the stars. They have a clip that goes over the main line wire.

[Woody]

This was for attaching laterals to a mainline without a wire. The owner prefers no wires and everything to be removed after the season.

thanks

[dschultz]

Sounds like alot of work to have to put up and take down the lines every season.If it was mine I would just use pails

[PATheron]

How much slope do you have and how long a run is it? Theron

[PATheron]

Maybe what you could do is just run a couple runs of 5/16 with 100 taps per run. It its got slope might work pretty good. I knew a guy down here did his whole 100 tap bush on 5/16 and then ran it clear down the hill to his house with role after role of 5/16 and into his tank. He made out pretty good with it. Gotta keep it heading down hill but maybe you could just weave the stuff through the trees like one big lateral. Just put drops at each tree. Real easy to take down just have to remember how it went somehow. Ive read old studys about when they were trying to get natural vac and they were getting the best results with like 80 to 100 taps. Totally wrong thing to do with vac but might work in your kind of situation. Other thing maybe run your mainline half way up the hill and just lay it on the ground or something and just run maybe 4 lats off it with 50 apiece or something. Just some thoughts. Theron

[brookledge]

Woody
Now that I know you are taking it down each year not only would I use hollow core nylon I would also use the 5/16 quick disconects right at the main line that way when you coil up the main line it will be just the main line and then you can coil each lateral. Make sure you come up with some type of identification or tag system so you know where each one goes. Also make sure you mark the path that the main line goes so you get that back in the exact location so that your laterals line up.
Another nice thing about the hollow core nylon is you can tie it to your mainline and then untie it for taking down and then do over and over
Keith