To cement or not to.

[briduhunt]

I am running out of time and money and I was wondering if I put all of the fire brick in my evaporator and not cement them in will this hurt my evaporator or not. Or will this effect my eff. of the system? My thoughts were to put down a layer of sand then place my bricks in the sand bed. I will cement the bricks in this summer but I am not sure i will be able to cement them in this year as the weather is a problem. I do not have any heat source for my sugar shack and here in the heart of the Finger lakes in New York the temps are barly getting above 25 ish. Any help would be greatly appreicated.

[Jeff E]

As long as your bricks are tight fitting you dont really need to mortar the joints.

I have never bricked the flat of my evaporators, just used vermiculite.
My new set up, have used a bit of mortar to fill gaps in my brick, and lined the entire arch with arch board, even under the vermiculite.

you can also use pan gasket material to fill in some gaps in the brick, like near the rails.

[mapleack]

If you have much of a gap anywhere between firebricks, particularly in the firebox, the heat will burnout the tin on your arch. Furnace cement is pretty cheap, $14 or so a half gallon. Don't worry about putting it on when cold, your first fire will cure it.

[briduhunt]

I was thinking of putting it in when it is cold but the manufacturers instructions say it should be installed whith a surface temp. above 50. So that would mean I would have to heat the evaporator to have the cement cure properly.

[Big maple]

We dry fitted both of our other evaporators and never had a problem make sure your joints are tight and tuck your ceramic blanket at the bottom of the rail and you soudn't have any problems.

[briduhunt]

Now that brings us another question. On the unit I purchased (used) there was only cemented in fire brick. Should I consider a ceramic blanket the sand then the bricks? If a blanket is recomended then is this something I can get from a fire place store?

[Big maple]

ceramic blanket should be available at any fireplace store, they sell it by the sqaure foot, but I wouldn't use it behind the bricks because it might not let enough heat through the sides of the firebox to keep your legs warm just at thhe 1/4 inch gap at the top of the bricks and between pan and rails. Just my two cents.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Tell him to put on long underware if his legs get cold.

[mapleman3]

I firebricked then covered the evap with extra archbord(or the pans)and put 2 500 watt halogen lights in it overnight, dried nice by the next day! stayed toasty in it and it was -10 that night

[Fred Henderson]

I dipped my brick in fireclay and set them in place. No mortor. This advice came from a brick mason that had done a lot of fire bricking on very large units for Alcoa.

[Acer]

I dipped my brick in fireclay and set them in place. No mortor. This advice came from a brick mason that had done a lot of fire bricking on very large units for Alcoa.

I'll have to move my arch next year, and am inclined to unbrick it to avoid tweaking the frame. How does that fireclay behave when you take out the bricks? Does it crumble right off or is it a pain to clean them up?


D

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Acer,

I move my arch 3.5 years ago with aprox 140 firebrick and estimated it the weight of it over 1,400 lbs. My uncle has a JD tractor with bucket and it is aprox 70 hp 4x4 with fluid in the rear and I picked up the evaporator with a 10,000 lb x 2" wide tow strap underneath firebox area and one under the center of the flued area and set it in a trailer and took it to the building and hooked it back up, carried it inside and set it into place. Good thing my building was a big as it was and a 9' high x 12' wide garage door for the tractor to get inside and be able to slowly get it turned around and set the evaporator in the place where it is still sitting. Put like a piece of 2x12 underneath the flued area and this worked good for me and saved me from rebricking it as it has only been bricked for 2 years.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Acer: Depends did you follow all the rules when you bricked it? Did you soak the brick in water for a few seconds before you applied the morter. Did you brush all the joints with morter sluury to help joints bond. Did you spray water mist on them so they didnt dry out to fast and then after it was dry did you gently heat then and cure with hot fire.

I didnt either so when I took mine apart a few had morter stuck to them wacked with claw hammer off it came

[MapleME]

quick question- I just got about 1/2 the Mason 2x6 bricked up- going pretty well. Sorta like a big game of tetris so I had to have my wife help with the layout. Either way I did it, I still have a few gaps where it was too small of a space to cut and fit a brick, or where the angled sides start to go up and out, therefore leaving a gap.

I guess my question is, should I make a piping bag (similar to what you would ice a cake with) to squeeze refractory cement in the joints? 90% of the bricks are right up next to its neighbor so I dont need any joint mortar- its just the ends and a few slots that I can see down to the metal.

Thanks!

[Haynes Forest Products]

Thats how they repair brick that the morter fell out of I got mine at Home Depot. There cheap I think around $5 they have a metal tip that helps get in the craks. If you do use one mix up the cement a little thinner than if you were stacking bricks. If its to stiff it wont squeez out of the bag. Plus mist the bricks first it slides in and adhears better.

[MapleME]

Thanks Haynes. I have about 1/4 inch gap between my rail where the pan sits and the tops of the bricks. Reading more it looks like I can stuff that gap with gasket material- sounds like piping it with cement is probably a better solution.

Thanks again,
MapleME

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Stuff it with gasket material, the 1/4" crack is too big of a joint and the refractory cement will crack and fall out in pieces. Been there, done that. It works much better like a thin layer of peanut butter on a piece of bread and don't work in a thick joint like regular brick mortar. Might be fine if you never put heat to it, but it won't stand up in thick joints with all that heat.

[MapleME]

Brandon, thanks for the lesson learned. The gasket material I have is 1" wide and in about a 50 foot roll. Is that the stuff I should use to stuff in it or does it come in another form (like what I use on my wood stove door which is like a rope style)?
Thanks again
MapleME

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

See if you can come with a some scrap pieces of ceramic blanket and stuff that in there vs using the gasket. The gasket will work fine if that is all you have.

[Fred Henderson]

I'll have to move my arch next year, and am inclined to unbrick it to avoid tweaking the frame. How does that fireclay behave when you take out the bricks? Does it crumble right off or is it a pain to clean them up?


D

You mix the clay up like a slurry. Totally submerge the bick in it and then sit it in place. Taking them out next year or years later is no problem. The clay just falls off. After I have all mine in place I spread what was left on the bricks with a trowel.