Looking for Book Advice

[Mike Gerend]

I am an overanxious beginner that took a big plunge into a 3x12 arch and corresponding pans. We are in the middle of building the sugarhouse. I have cooked off before, but never run my own system. I want to find out if anyone has encountered the be-all-end-all, beginner to advanced, manual on running a system.

Any help from the experts out there?

MG

[Clan Delaney]

Mike, I moved your question to it's own thread where it's likely to get better attention and faster responses.

The North American Maple Syrup Producers Manual (http://www.massmaple.org/manual.html) is the maple makers bible. It's got it all. And where it leaves off, we pick up!

If you want to talk to the someone else here who went whole hog, PATheron (http://www.mapletrader.com/community/member.php?u=861) is your guy. I understand he went from nothing to everything in one year. He's probably posting a BIGSAP update as I type!

[tessiersfarm]

between the The North American Maple Syrup Producers Manual and mapletrader.com you have it covered, top to bottom.

[forester1]

I would add the tubing book as well. By Staats and Chapeskie (http://www.eomf.on.ca/publications/publications_details_e.aspx?pubno=P12).

[Clan Delaney]

Mike, are there any specific questions you had? Fire 'em off, we'll have at e'm!

[parsissn]

You can buy the N.A. Maple Syrup Manual direct from OSU. You can pay with CC online and I don't think you'll find it cheaper anywhere else.

http://estore.osu-extension.org/productdetails.cfm?sku=856

[mapleman3]

I was thinking also we need a compilation of videos for help... so maybe I can start a thread and add links to you tube videos of maple syrup producers that have made some videos of their operations

[Sugarmaker]

Mike,
Go slow, Small fire, slow boil, learn how all the things work. Have 2-3 buckets of sap handy. Watch all levels in all pans flat boxes and tanks. keep your sap level about 2 inches deep to start. Did i mention watch everything like a hawk. Have several others watching sap levels too. You might get distracted. Boil for several hours before reducing sap levels. play with your float to understand how it works.

The books are great but this is something like riding a bike you cant learn it from the couch. (Unless you have a couch in the sugar house then that's another story).

We need to hear more about this rig. Hoods? external float box raised of drop flue? what brand? All these things will allow us to help. Several pictures would help. Also storage tank height above rig? Its a good size starter unit. How many taps? This should boil off 100 GPH. tell us about you sugar house. Cupola? steam stacks, Wood or oil fired?
When you cooked before on what size rig. and what were your jobs on that rig?

Regards,
Chris

[Mike Gerend]

I cannot believe how many helpful responses I have gotten. What a great community I have fallen into. You guys are great. The N.A. Maple Syrup Manual sound like the bible and I appreciate the lead from parsissn on the most economical and convenient option. Mapleman, it would be great to see some video content out there, thanks.

Sugarmaker and All, we the pans are being fabricated right now in Thorp, WI by Mike Jacque. He is one of the more involved guys in the maple syrup community in the WI and MN region. Very good guy. Front pan is 37x37 with horizontal flow and back pan is 37x105 with external float box and drop flue. No hoods in the first round. We are planning on an external tank raised so that the bottom is four feet (just above the top of the pans). Right now I have spiles and buckets for about 200 trees, but I have alot more trees to tap if I want to. I bought the arch from a local farmer and it is 12x3. Fire system. The cast is original with a Soule stamp and the galvanized is re-done and never used. The sugarhouse is 14x26 and we have not built it yet. We cut all the lumber ourselves in the fall and dried and stacked it and poured the concrete pad and footings. We are building starting this weekend. Should not take too long. We are going to use pine planks vertically for sidewalls and roof. Got some good roof tin off of a local teardown for the roof. Designed a cupola to handle the anticipated necessary height of the exhaust stack based upon the unit size and the roof height.

As long as you guys are so helpful and curious, I have a couple more questions:

1. How tall should my stack be?
2. Has anyone ever used corrugated metal under firebrick to close the distance between the bottom of the artch and the bottom of the flue pans?
3. I was going to use firebrick caulk and not mortar to get some flexibility during expansion and contraction
4. Do you guys think I have too big of a system? I usually take the 'go big or go home approach', but am afraid that I am not going to have enough sap.
5. PATheron, if you are out there, I would love to hear how you survived your first year of wading in over your head.

OK, I am probably wearing out my welcome so I will shut it down and listen now. Thanks again for everyone's help. I feel part of the tribe already. They say that you are not a sugarmaker until you burned your first pan, but I would prefer to get the title without the burn.

[mapleman3]

I have added a bunch of video links in the maple resource forum area I will add more.

the stack should be 2 x the length of your evaporator at minimum.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Mike,
I'll take a stab at a couple of your questions.
Stack height..... The general rule of thumb is at least 2 feet of stack for every foot of evaporator length, so in your case you need 24 feet of stack. This includes the base stack.

Size Matters.....You are a bit big for 200 taps, particularly on slow run days but you said you have many more you can (and probably will if you are like the rest of us) tap. For now, you might want to hold the sap over on slow runs but quality will suffer some or just boil for an hour and be done. You could always expand this year. You don't have enough if there are still more to tap and you can't keep up on the good days:)
Doug

[Clan Delaney]

Mike,

As you design that cupola, the opening should be at least as big as the total surface area of your pans.

[Mike Gerend]

Dumb questions. How exactly do I get to the maple resource forum.


I have added a bunch of video links in the maple resource forum area I will add more.

the stack should be 2 x the length of your evaporator at minimum.

[Clan Delaney]

Dumb questions. How exactly do I get to the maple resource forum.

On the front page, nearer to the bottom, it's called Maple Information on the Web (http://www.mapletrader.com/community/forumdisplay.php?f=21)

[Sugarmaker]

Mike,
Good info on your operation. Now we have something to chew on!
Stack height has been answered and right on. Don't worry about having the evaporator a little over sized this year. Couple of things most of us start a little too small and grow. the 200 taps if they are on the right trees will provide enough to boil on every run.
I had 400 + taps last year and whet and gathered in a raging snow storm to get it before it froze and carted it back and boiled it in only took about 40 min of boiling but it was in the evaporator and pushed through about 2 gallons of syrup that was in process. If you have the buckets you can always tapp a few more mid season too.

Sound like a well thought out operation looking forward to pictires. Keep asking questions.

You can use just sand in the bottom under the flues to get within a inch or so from them, you really don't need fire brick there although some folks do brick that area too. The corrugated metal would work to take up some gap also.

Chris

[Mike Gerend]

I am assembling the list of equipment I will need for the sugarhouse, but was hoping someone has a checklist or knew where one existed so I can avoid the last minute scramble. Any thoughts?

[Sugarmaker]

Mike,
Hum Checklist,
(steelers may lose this If they dont get going)

Evaporator/ boiling unit.
Wood or oil or some type of heat.
Sap
Time

Thats about it, Beyond that its just fluff!:)

Chris

[mfchef54]

mike,
hydrometer and cup, therometer, filters and something to store it in. skimmer, scoop, maybe some defoamer.

[Haynes Forest Products]

How many people really use their screen or scoop? All I end up doing with a steam hood is burning my hand and dropping it in the flue pan. Im thinking of nailing them up on the peak of the sap shack like a pair of skis. I dont use them to check for sheet of sap thats what the hydrometer is for.

[mfchef54]

those us with primitive systems use them all the time.

[Haynes Forest Products]

All I ever did was make a mess even when I had the most primitive system.

[Mike Gerend]

Do you guys finish in the pans or do a last boil off in a kettle prior to bottling? Anyone ever use Cornelius kegs (soda syrup container) or the old milk kegs for bulk storage that is air tight prior to bottling?

[KenWP]

What is the skimmer for. If you screen your sap do you still get floatys when boiling. I might have to do with out one of those this year and use a wooden spoon instead.

[Sugarmaker]

Ken,
The skimmer is used most in pans with no hoods. during the boiling a lot of foam will be in the back pan and the skimmer allows you to get this out of the sap.

Regards,
Chris