wash or not

[Dave Y]

How many of you wash your tubing? and with what? If you wash what kind of squirrel damage or other animal chewing do you see. If you dont wash, do you see animal chewing? I didnt wash my tubing last year and I am seeing not a lot of damage, but enough to try and figure out how to stop it! And I am sure it is squirrels. I did see signs of a friend in the bush yesterday, there has been a Fisher hunting in the woods. Maybe he will take care of my squirrels.

[Russell Lampron]

I wash my tubing with water and compressed air. I had a lot of damage from deer last season but usually don't get much tree rat damage.

[ennismaple]

We wash ours by sucking hot water through each tap as we pull them. If you don't add Javex to your wash water the squirrels aren't attracted to it.

[Brian Ryther]

I am able to wash my lines from the top of the lines with a water pump. In the past when I did not wash I would see clumps of mold / bacteria in the tubing. I would have to let the first run go to the ground until the new sap would flush the clups of junk out. I have not seen any of this mold this year.

[brookledge]

I wash with calcium hypoclolrite it is just like bleach(sodium hypoclorite) except it doesn't have any sodium which is what attracts the varmits. when I switched to that from bleach I saw a decrease in damage. My feeling is no matter what you do sometimes you are going to get chewing damage. If an animal happens to be looking at it and decide to chew it's going to no matter what
I use my vacuum to wash as I pull taps.
Keith

[troes30]

We also used to use bleach water but the squirrels liked it. We now use an organic cleaner called LOC, but I'm open to suggestions also. Its seems no matter what there are always chew spots as well as mold spots. And last year I found canine bite marks in numerous places...figure that one out. Someone told me coyote, but I don't know about that. I clean by just letting the vacuum suck the soapy water out of a pail when I pull spouts. Hopefully someone can come up with a fool proof way to clean tubing. Seems everyone is wondering the answer.

[brookledge]

another thing to consider is stop cleaning. Keep all the sap in the spring and start out making commercial. I know it goes against most peoples principals including my own. Even though I wash my lines I still let it run on the ground for a while. If you look at Bascom's boiling chart they have posted, every year they start off making commercial and then work up to fancy.
Years ago there was a big difference in bulk if you dropped a grade. Now that it is basicly the same accross the board there is not an incentive to do so.
keith

[Russell Lampron]

If you are selling to Bascom's commercial is 25 cents a pound less than the other grades so it is still beneficial to try to make grade B or above.

[brookledge]

Yes but what I was refering to is the sap that alot of people dump on the groung at the beginning of the year until the lines clean out, that sap could make commercial instead of going on the ground.
Keith

[Haynes Forest Products]

I used to wash all the lines and still had snots in the line and would get chews. Now we let it run and filter out the stragler snots and I dont get chewed. Knock on wood I maybe have 5 chew holes in lines but never 2 in the same spot so I figure its a smart critter.

Now I got to thinking some people clean thair pans by letting sap spoil in the evaperator and they come out clean could the same be true for the lines.......MMMMMMMM

[Clan Delaney]

I only have a short run of tubing right here in the yard. Last year I washed it by letting a 5 gallon bucket of cleaner flush through them, gravity feed. I use a product that I've had on hand for cleaning brewing equipment called Super Chlor. I believe that it's calcium hypochlorite like brookledge mentioned. Then I hooked the top end of the line up to the garden hose and let it flush with fresh water for half an hour. Let drain and roll it up. I actually stored it in the extra fridge in the garage.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I use calcium hypoclolrite also, and in two of my bushes that have about 55 to 60% of my taps, I may have one or two places in each bush with a little damage and that is it. The other bush has 235 taps in it and I have documented on here all the problems I have had with rodent damage with that bush. It is less than 1/2 mile from either of the other 2 bushes. I saw a squirrel drinking sap out of this bush a couple of seasons ago and I have yet to put a stop to all this damage. I have set rat traps with peanut butter and killed a couple. It is very frustrating, lots of time and energy to repair and with the price of tubing and fittings, expensive.

[Dave Y]

I did not wash my lines last year and I am not sure if I ever will. This why I posted this question. With all the responses received i am not sure it's worth the effort. I plan on putting my lines in the tanks and boiling every thing. with the price of syrup it would be foolish to dump sap.

[Russell Lampron]

Kieth I see where you are coming from now. I don't let anything run on the ground on purpose. It is too valuable of a commodity to do that.

[PATheron]

The kids and I used to enjoy watching the squirrells at the bird feeder. So cute and cuddly. Then I put some line in one year. Saved all my money and did a nice neat job. First run sap spurting everywhere. Thats when we decided the squirrells are not our little friends. Let me just tell you something those squirrells went down and they went down hard. This year with all the tube on the hill I had to fix one drop that was it. Thats probly out of hundred rolls of 5/16. I just pulled my taps under vac and things look pretty clean. I figure commercial is an honest maple product that is worth money so Im doing like Bascoms. Zar

[Russell Lampron]

I have always washed my tubing in the past but the idea of pulling taps with the vacuum pump running and then just flushing the mainlines with water is starting to sound rather good. Replace the spout adapter every year so that there is something clean in the tap hole and a nasty job just got a lot easier.

[Clan Delaney]

So Russ and Theron, am I understanding this correctly? You'd turn on the vac, then go spout to spout, pull them and stick them in a bucket of water, let some wash through and then plug them?

[mfchef54]

At the NY Conference There was a panel that talked about Washing tubing. I don't remember the other two but Glen Goodrich was one of them. he said that all of his lines are designed with washing in mind first. He did point out that a majority of people don't. they offered three methods One water and pressure, one with perioxide water and pressure and the third bleach and water and pressure.

[jtthibodeau]

For a small back yard set up, this is what I've done. The first few years I installed tubing, I removed all my lines, including my main, and did a serious cleaning job with re-installation in the spring. That was a whole lot of work.

Last year I decided to try a little different approach. I installed a garden hose connection into the main line at it's lowest point (sap house). With the use of the dug well, located near the sap house, and it's pump, I attached a garden hose and let it rip after all the taps had been pulled. I started at the lowest lateral and, after allowing the fresh water to run from the tap a minute or two, I capped the tap. As I progressed up hill, the lower capped taps forced the water pressure up hill to those higher up in elevation.

Once I reached the upper most laterals, I watch the last few taps on the end of the highest lateral to see when the water pressure finally reached it and ran clear. At this time, I shut off the water supply and allowing the water to flow back out down stream. I made an effort to cap all the taps to prevent mud wasp nest.

Due to the fact this was local R and D (sometimes I think I may be related to Rube), and not sure which was best, some laterals held water over the summer and some didn't. I never noticed any biological growth within any lines, empty or full. It sure was a heck of a lot less work and, unless something comes up, is the way I plan to "rinse" my lines this year also.

The only draw back was installing a cap/caps on the lower portions with not enough force, allowing the head pressure of the water to pop them off and, not leaving enough pressure to reach the top. It took a couple of trips to correct that situation but, heck, my Doctor said I need to do 20 minutes on the tread mill anyway but, this is more fun.

[ennismaple]

We've washed with just hot water and still get chews every year - squirrel, deer, bear and porcupine. I guess they're just curious. I fixed a cap on a star manifold on Sunday that had been completely chewed off - the other 4 caps on that manifold were untouched!

What Clan Delaney mentioned is exactly what we do.

[Russell Lampron]

Clan,

What Theron did was pull his taps with the vacuum on so that the sap that was still in the laterals would get sucked out.

What I am thinking about is doing the same thing when I pull the taps but when I am done I would hook up the tubing washer that I made and pump water and compressed air up through the main lines. I have a valve at the upper end of each one so that I can flush them out.

I am using the 2 piece stubby spouts and adapters. I am still undecided on weathier I will replace the adapters or wash and boil them and reuse them.
Studies that have been done in the field and at the Proctor Research Center show that you get more sap if you have something new in the hole at the tree.

[Clan Delaney]

Studies that have been done in the field and at the Proctor Research Center show that you get more sap if you have something new in the hole at the tree.

Do you know if that study makes a distinction between new and clean/sterile? I'd imagine that washing and boiling the spouts, then storing them in a clean, dry place would be enough to get those benefits. I use the same spouts each year, and do just that. Soak in calcium hypochlorite solution, rinsed, boiled, rinsed, dried, and stored in ziploc bags with silica dessicant. Dangit, you could perform surgery with 'em! :D

[mountainvan]

I flush the tubing with 1% bleach solution, plug spiles and mainline ends, and then go to the next bush. After washing all of the tubing I start at the beginning and flush with mountain spring water, and then move to the next bush. Then I start at the beginning and plug all the spiles into the tees till next year. Last year that was 45 miles worth of walking. This year it will be 60 miles, I won't need to go to the gym. Some of my tubing is 16 years old and still looking marvelous! It does take me longer to clean than to tap, but cleaning is cheaper than new tubing every couple years. Do critters chew my tubing? They sure do, it's in their home...but new tubing put up in June gets chewed as much as old. If there's a specific area that is getting more action from rodents I put a fake owl there. Rodents don't seem to like owls. Coyotes, bears, and bobcats do! Hence I am currently without a fake owl. As for my answer to the question. Yes you should wash the tubing. Do you not wash the bowl after captain crunch for breakfast? We are making food for ourselves and for others. Cleanliness is next to .. well you know.

[Russell Lampron]

Clan,

Dr Wilmott from Proctor said that bleach and peroxide won't kill the micro organisms that bury themselves in the pores of the spouts and tubing. He also said that boiling them kills more of them but some will survive. They form a protective film over themselves that the bleach and peroxide can't penetrate.

Doing it the way that you do is probably the best way other than an autoclave to get them clean but who can afford an autoclave. On the scale that you are doing it the time spent cleaning them is minimal but add some zeros to that number and it doesn't take long before it isn't cost effective. As for the silica jell bags they sucked up all of the moisture that they could long before you got them.

[Clan Delaney]

As for the silica jell bags they sucked up all of the moisture that they could long before you got them.

AH! But they can be reused. Just throw them in the oven for about an hour at 300, the heat drives the stored moisture out and they're ready to go again.

You're right though, for my size operation, this is an okay system.

[Riverdale]

We use a PTO powered pump to push a light chlorox/water mix through the lines, working from one tree to the next...letting it run til ya smell the chlorox...Once we've hit each tap we go back and knock everything out so it drains. The majority of our tubing is older and we take it down every year, reducing the amount of rodent damage. We have the occasional chew spots, but nothing too bad. The worst damage I've seen was on some new lines we stretched about 2 ft. off the ground and left it up. About 200' into 40-50 pieces...looked like a canine. Hope to someday replace all the old tubing w/ new and will then explore other cleaning options besides the chlorox. The PTO pump on a 70 HP tractor will send some pressure though, great way of finding the leaks too...

[nymapleguy607]

We use a PTO powered pump to push a light chlorox/water mix through the lines, working from one tree to the next...letting it run til ya smell the chlorox...Once we've hit each tap we go back and knock everything out so it drains. The majority of our tubing is older and we take it down every year, reducing the amount of rodent damage. We have the occasional chew spots, but nothing too bad. The worst damage I've seen was on some new lines we stretched about 2 ft. off the ground and left it up. About 200' into 40-50 pieces...looked like a canine. Hope to someday replace all the old tubing w/ new and will then explore other cleaning options besides the chlorox. The PTO pump on a 70 HP tractor will send some pressure though, great way of finding the leaks too...

Don't you have a problem blowing mainline fittings apart? with just straight water pressure that must be hard on mainline connections

[swierczt]

I only have some short runs of lines and I take them down every year and wash them with a mild bleach/water solution and flush them out well with hot then cold water. I've had some of my lines over 12 years with no problems....except for a few black spots in the lines that never seem to come out no matter how much I try to get them out and one or two taps chewed by critters. I was thinking of trying BTF Iodophor Sanitizer. I know lots of people use it for homebrewing...it's a commerical sanatizer that supposidly do not even have to rinse afterwards...I still think I would rinse, I don't like the idea of any chemicals in my sap. Anyone had any experience with this stuff?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I would like to Proctor do this same study with gravity and not vacuum and see what they come up with.

[SWEETSAP]

Has anyone tried cleaning their taps with ethanol in a ultrasonic cleaner? Both of the ultrasonic cleaners I have heat the cleaning fluid to about 200 deg F. When cleaning the ethanol evaporates and then recondenses on the cover with very little loss.

[Riverdale]

nymapleguy607,

generally no problems blowing mainline fittings apart...all are clamped. Without clamps, I would say the likelihood would increase. There's also never a time when the entire system is pressurized....we don't turn the pump on til there's a spile knocked out of a tree.