Welding Stainless

[mapleman3]

Ok, So I want to try my hand at welding stainless, I love the stuff so much, shiney smooth, clean :lol: :lol:
I know how to Mig weld Steel, (hopefully WF Mason is listening), basically I want to be able to make a tank or a shelf hood,or whatever whenever...
I will get the correct wire and tri-mix sheilding gas, now what else should I watch for when I do the welding, too much heat? warpage? also who is a good source for buying stainless?

[sugaring42long]

It is real hard to weld butt seams on thinner than about .125 stainless with a mig and have it look presentable. But on the other hand its real hard to bend and work stainless over about 20 gauge (.035). Thats why a tig is pretty much the only way to go unless you have access to some real serious shears and brakes.
Now might be the time to check out ebay for a used tig. I have seen some great welders sell cheap.

[WF MASON]

Well Jim , I can honestly say, I've never mig-welded stainless , I've seen it done , and you do have splatter and warpage just like migging mild steel, 95% +or- of stainless (thin gauge) is fuse welded with a tig torch, no wire added, the seam or butt to be welded is basically melted together.(I feel like I'm giving away trade secrets),at Leader they have a strip welder, they line up the two sides of the flue , clamp in place, and start it going,(fusing,no wire), I could tell you a story about an old farmer who came to see me about making him a flue pan , he was extending his 2'x6' Grimm arch to an 8'ter , and wanted a price on a 6' pan , I gave him one and he left , I didn't hear anything from him and a couple months went by , I was working one day and he drove in , said he'd mentioned to a guy down the road from his place who made trailers that he'd gotten a price on having a pan made and he thought it was quite a bit , the guy agreeded with him and said he could do it for half that price. He gave him the money to buy the stainless , the guy called him in a few weeks and told him to come and pick up the stainless,( cut into pieces) and the one flue he had migged.What a mess to say the least. The farmer threw the stainless out on the ground and said ''use what you can , just make me that 'DAM' pan'' !!!
My best advise would be get a small tig , some are 115v, 90 amps , welding 20 or 22 gauge your only running 25-30 amps .So a small unit works fine. The other post was right , its hard to 'make' something sheetmetal with out the basic tools,welder,hand shear or nibbler ,and basic bending break, once you do learn to tig , that mig welder will collect alot of dust.

[mapleman3]

I really would like to try it, wish I has some scrap stainless around, the wire is cheap enough and just need to get the gas... I figured it wouldn't be easy, I tried aluminum with not so great results, I have been using my mig for years, it's like a metal hot glue gun how easy it has gotten. but I know your right about how much easier and nicer with little to no warpage the tig is. I just don't think I could justify the cost unless I'm going to sell stuff which isn't my intention, I just want to be able to make something if I need it. I used to be a tin knocker by trade before I got into HVAC service, and still have access to a shear and break when needed(just a pain to get there)so I may "play" , the wire is only 12 bucks and the gas to fill my tank is 28.. may as well try... I really thank you for the reply, and who knows maybe someday... Tig on ebay if I like doing it.

[mapleman3]

WF.. I may throw you a message soon, If it doesn't work out for me I'm looking to get made a small 30 gal or so stainless tank with a filter holder like on a canner to put on the back of my truck, with a 3/4 tap on the side to hook a 12v pump to, then that will go to the 275 gal poly tank on the truck right behind the stainless tank.. that way it's lower for my kids to dump in and I'll set up a float that turns on the pump and pumps it up to the big tank. I remember last year if it was wet or snowy it wasn't good to have the kids climb up on the truck bed to dump into the larger tank... sound stupid? I'm thinking mayb 24 x30 and 18 -20" high.. with the rack built in and a removable cover...

[WF MASON]

The tank your speaking of Jim I call a dump station , this you can use your mig to make , I used to make them out of stainless , but went to plastic , you can have it bolt to your bumper or go into your reese hitch then drop down to dump in to. Get a 15 gallon plastic drum , mine had Dr. Pepper syrup in them , so they don't cost much, make a cradle the drum will fit into laying on the side , cradel is 1x1x1/8'' angle , heigth of cradel is width of barrel, use a sawall to cut out opening towards the side you'll be dumping into. Shouldn't be directly on top. Drill angle on each end of cradel and bolt through barrel with stainless hardware, keep bung hole to the top in cradel to run pump hose and wires out. Use Rule bulge pump 1200 gph or larger. I make quite a few each year and they work fine , really save the back from lifting. If you needed a sketch , I could fax you one , but its pretty simple.

[ontario guy]

i did a bit or research on this and to avoid warping you have to weld and inch skip 4 or 5 inches weld and inch skip.... it sound a bit painfull but it makes sense. There is another technique were you clamp a hunk of of metal near your welding bead to draw the heat away from your light gauge metal so it does not warp.

Let me know how it turns out... i was thinking of getting a Miller 135 or 200 mig miself.

mark

[mapleman3]

Both ideas are great, WF thats a great idea, may use that, if ya want to fax it it's 413-739-6189.. thanks
Ontario Guy, I will try that, I did read on the net some, they did recomend welding in that fasion... now I'm looking for some scrap to play with :)

[sugaring42long]

Mapleman3, Just a warning - Making your own equipment is highly addictive and soon you will have a shop full of stuff. First the brake then the shear then the tig!
Back to welding though, get the smallest diameter wire you can get I think its .029 dia. and the alloy that I like is type 308. I think you will find the hardest part will be controlling the heat, thin stainless goes from just hot enough to make a puddle to burn-thru quicker than mild steel which makes having to stitch weld a must. A good tig has a foot peddle to instantly control the current and avoid burning. Getting a leak free joint with lots of starting and stopping is hard with the mig because its constantly feeding out wire and before you know it you have a big "turkey turd" on your seam.
Around here the Amish tinsmiths all have lots of stainless and will sell it cheap. They buy thousands of pounds at a time and then divide it up and are always looking for people to sell it to. Most cities have shops that deal with surplus,used and odd size metal. Don't even bother with anything less than .0625 and even .125 stainless is plenty thin for a mig. Have fun

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jim,

You had better quit while your ahead before Charlene gets mad at you for taking up something else. I am going up to the Amish who made my hood this week and I will tell you what I am getting for around $ 500 to $ 600.

1. 2x8 fully customized and fully stainless hood
2. 15' stainless steam stack 10"
3. 10" stainless roof jack
4. 3x7 stainless table top with 6" sides
5. 24" x 30" hood for my finisher
6. 13.5" x 32" x 16" stainless finishing pan
and whatever else I have forgot to mention.

This could cost a little more than $ 600, but the hood system is fully customized and made off of my plans and blueprints and is unique. I will send you some pics this weekend and you can get him to make you whatever you want for a fraction of the cost and you can drive down next year and get it all since you are about 7 or 8 hours away.

Give WF Mason a call for anything you need this year and I will send you some pics in a few days. :D :D

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

OK, OK, I lied a little :oops:

Went up and got all my new stuff today and pictures are posted on my website.

Here is a list of what I paid for everything and please overlook the dirt on the hood as it is covered with a film of dust from a very dusty dirt road I had to travel. The sliding doors are plexiglass so you can see inside it really good.

2x8 stainless hood system w/ heavy duty aluminum frame $ 440.00

18 gauge 15" x 5' drip tray with adjustable brackets $ 68.00

3'x7' w/ 6" sides stainless table top $ 120.00

16' of 10" stainless stack with built in steam damper $ 120.00

13" x 32" x 16" stainless finishing pan $ 40.00

24" x 32" hood for gas finisher with drip channel and heavy aluminum frame $ 46.00

2' x 3' 10" stainless roof jack $ 40.00

The hood fit on the evaporator like a glove and I hadn't seen it since it was started. It was made totally off of my diagrams and sketches and I am no artist. The Amish that made it told me it was the best design he had ever seen and he has made quite a few different style hoods. I hope it works good and I guess I won't have too long to wait! :D

BE SURE AND CHECK OUT THE PICS ON MY WEBSITE!

http://photos.yahoo.com/wvmapler


I had to change the album settings, sorry for the inconvience but it is working fine now. :oops: :oops:

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Ok, the website should be working fine. Sorry for the mistake.
:oops:

http://photos.yahoo.com/wvmapler

[mapleman3]

Nice stuff for sure! and ya cant beat the prices either.

[sugaring42long]

Hey Brandon do the Amish you go to Weld? I see the aluminum frame is welded. Around here they solder and use rivets but won't weld as far as I know. Nice setup by the way, you should get lots of hot water off that hood. You have enough height to put on a steam-away if you should need it.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

He didn't do the welding but had someone else to do the welding and he did everything else. I haven't looked at it a ton, but from what I can see whoever did the welding on the aluminum did a first class job. :D

Since they don't have electricity, I guess it would be hard to weld unless they used a generator. :?

Thanks for the complement on the setup and I can't wait to see how it will do. Might have to do a test boil this winter once I get the preheater built, my arch set on the floor and the airtight front and blower installed. :D

[brookledge]

Brandon,
Are you going to put a pre-heater in?The reason I ask is that steam might come out of the area over the syrup pan if you put in a damper. Leader catolog p. 13 says it should be damper controled. I don't know as I did not put in a damper in mine but, I'm asking the question to everybody do you use a damper in your steam hood? And does it help? If you have to you could put in another stack over the syrup pan and block off the middle. The pictures look great and its amazing how much cheaper it was. I just noticed that you did get a damper. I'm curious to know if the damper will force the steam out over the syrup pan?
Keith

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I did have my steam stack built with a damper inside. I will use the damper to the extent to keep as much steam inside as possible without the steam from coming back out the front of the hood. My hood is the same style as the Algier hoods for a 2x8 and less than 1/3 the price. I called them and they wanted $ 1376 for a hood almost identical to this one. It works great for them as they only have one stack on their hood and they have a 10" steam stack just like mine.

I guess time will tell, but I think it will work good as I have done a lot of research. I have everything to build a parallel flow preheater and hope to have it done in a month or two. It shouldn't take too long to build it as I have already designed it in my head. :oops: :D I will have aprox $ 110 in the preheater and that is with the extremely high price of copper! :D

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mapleman3]

I'm sure if need be it could be blocked off and a stack could be cut in the syrup pan hood

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Kevin,

I know the cool air will lower the temp some and I weighed this in with other factors and decided to go this route. I think it will work good, but time will tell! :D

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Kevin,

Probably 5 or 6 about 4.5' long. As many as I can get! :D :D

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[forester1]

Kevin,
You have a tee coming off the inlet to the preheater from the head tank? Not sure but I thought that was what the tee is for--run a tube up higher than the head tank to vent off the gas that may come off preheated sap.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Is a vent pipe neccessary to prevent vapor lock with 3/4" copper preheater??

[forester1]

I don't know. That is how my commercial preheater was made by waterloo/small. You run clear hose up off the vertical part of the tee and it can serve as a sight tube as well. The hose would have to be run higher than the filled level of the head tank.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[brookledge]

Brandon,
I would put in a vent and I would run it back to your feed tank or out of harms way. If you do get boiling in side and the vent is straight up someone might get burnt from the hot sap when it vents. Also i put in a 1/2" valve were my pipe goes into the hood which is over the float box and when i shut down for the day it is an easy way to drain the pre-heater so you won't have problems like Kevin did

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[mapleman3]

Hey WF, Saw your ad in the farming magazine... you make a nice canner!! I remember the brochure you sent me awhile back.. sure wish I could weld stainless as good as you :wink:

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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