This would take the fun out of sugaring.

[Justin Turco]

Imagine if someone invented an RO that brought the sap all the way to syrup then just before it leaves the machine it is heated to carmalize and give it character and run through a self contained filter press. What a boring sugarhouse that would be. No Smoke, No fire, No Steam. The neighbor kids would stop over and stand around the machine. Their skin blue, teeth chattering. We'd be eating pancakes and sausage with fresh syrup just drawn off the big blue and white machine. There would be an echo bouncing off the walls of the once over crowded, now practically empty sugarhouse. AAAAUUUUGH! Somebody somewhere is working on this. Ahhh, Ahhh, Ahhh! (excuse me, I'll be outside running around the yard with no pants or shoes on.) Ahhh!

[DS Maple]

one of the many reasons I disagree with using RO for maple production. There's more than one way to improve efficiency, and when efficiency begins to deminish product quality one has to ask is it really worth it?

[TapME]

I remember Noel Perins short story about syrup a maple tree with a spigot on it and the person asking where the syrup(the setting was in the city) and this was 30 years ago.

Justin;I 'm sure that there is some one oversees doing that right now.

[Homestead Maple]

Recent studies by the Proctor Maple Research say that RO use in the processing of maple sap doesn't diminish maple syrup quality.

[markct]

im no expert on this, but i dont see how an ro cant effect the taste of syrup, not neccisarily quality, im sure its still got great color, sugar content and purity, but it seems the taste has to be affected, probably not noticable at low concentrates to the normal person, but altered none the less cause if you dont boil it as long it doesnt carmelize as long etc. cause theoreticly from what i have heard if you just seperate the sugar from the water in the sap, ya just have white tasteless sugar, thats what i was told happens in a lab environment when its done to sap by freeze drying. so at various concentrates that has to be some effect, altho maybe not as noticable at lower concentrations

[DS Maple]

exactly right. Pure maple products get their flavor from the full caramelization of the maple sugar. Whatever percentage of water is removed with RO, is the percentage of reduction of caramelization. For example a 50% reduction in water means a 50% reduction in boiling time and a 50% reduction in cooking/caramelization. With all do respect to the studies and to everyone who uses RO as a way to save fuel, I still don't believe that syrup cooked for 50% or even 75% of the full time is right. What would you think of a restaurant that only cooked its food for 50% of the necessary time to save on fuel?

[RileySugarbush]

A better analogy would be a restaurant that cooks steaks in a microwave.....

[WMF]

Ds Maple, If we were to follow your assumption that ALL syrup produced with an RO is inferior in flavor to " regular " syrup then how can it be that RO syrup wins contests in all grades when there are non RO entries in the running?

Surely the non RO syrup would have a huge advantage and as long as they are not disqualified should win every time but when you see who produced the winning samples many times they are running RO's. How can this be? Did the producer shut down his RO for the day so he could make a little good syrup to enter in a contest for bragging rights?

Is it possible that there is more to good maple flavor than just if you have an RO or not?

[sugarnut]

as a newbie, i have no experience with RO, but i like the idea that my south PA red maple sap at @ 1.5%-2% sugar content and which takes all day to cook may be superior to sugar maple syrup. :D

[royalmaple]

I guess we shouldn't use plastic tubing either incase the plastic taste gets into the sap?

And might get some gas fumes in the sap if you truck sap with a vehicle. Might be better to use horse and pull a sled down the road.

At some point you have to sit down and run the numbers for your operation. If you want to make 3 gallons of syrup and burn a forest of wood to do so, great. If you look at sugaring as a seasonal business...then only a top notch cutting edge business is going to be able to be profitable and successful in the long run. Tools of the trade.

[Russell Lampron]

When I first started sugaring I used to believe all of the wives tales about syrup made with an RO being inferrior. When presenting a non believer with a sample of each syrup one with RO and one without the so called experts who claimed that they could tell the difference couldn't and most chose the RO syrup as the better tasting sample.

I concentrate in the range of 8% to 12% which removes 75% or more of the water before I boil. I have found that it takes just as long as it used to to get a batch of syrup to density in my evaporator. The batches are larger than they used to be and that is the only difference. The flavor is superior to what it used to be and the is no reduction in quality.

When concentrating over 20% there is some sacrifice in flavor and the color is light but the producers that do that don't have large retail markets and the packers like it that way. To get the flavor and color that they want the packers blend commercial syrup with the light colored and flavored RO syrup to make dark amber. This is good for the maple industry because it creates a market for syrup that would otherwise be discarded or not produced. About 75% of the dark amber syrup that you see in supermarkets is produced this way.

Once you get over 20% the RO process becomes too inefficient to concentrate further. I don't see a super RO that can concentrate to syrup density being something to worry about. Any syrup producer that is serious about making alot of syrup should be thinking about RO right from the start. The energy savings and reduction in polutants going into the air far outweigh any disadvantages to using one.

[NH Maplemaker]

The funny part of this argument is that there is more syrup produced with sap run Thur RO's than not !!! If you think the largest syrup producers in the world are not using RO's ,than you have been sleeping to long!! The rest of us are just a drop in the bucket compared to them!! I hear all the time that Vermont makes the best syrup in the world !! I personally know a lot of Vermont sugar makers and only the very smallest are not using an RO!! We all know that the large producers in Canada use RO'S!! So I guess It very safe to say that 70 or 80 %( maybe more)of all maple syrup is produced with help of an RO. By the way I do not use an RO myself, But do not fault those who do!! Jim L.

[Clan Delaney]

Well said, Russell.

Let's keep in mind that no two operations are equal, but they all make syrup. Some in large quantities, some small. Some with purely traditional equipment and methods, some with modern, many more with mixed. As long as it's the right brix, color and flavor, it's all maple syrup.

There's no inferior syrup, just syrup on it's way to perfection. :)

[Jeff E]

Thats the beauty of making syrup. You can have a multi-million dollar operation cranking syrup out at the 'barrels per hour', and right next door you can have Ol' Pete tap 5 trees into milk jugs, boiling the sap in a stock pot on the grill.

They can look over the fence and say to each other, 'boy it really ran yesterday!' and be part of the brotherhood, understanding and appreciating each other.

I have told non-sappers about this site, and how cool it is to be chatting with folks from all walks of life, from all over the country and have a common bond and enjoyment.

Of course there is always room for a good debate, and plowing through stuff to find out what works and what dosn't. That is half the fun!

[maplecrest]

well here is the new thought. is out of r/o into a large steam kettle and big batch syrup. bring up to temp and it will shut off, draw off and refill with high consentrate and heat again. need twp steam pans for a larger operation. bascom is close to this idea now with his steam finish pan

[ennismaple]

We've always prided ourselves on making great flavoured syrup - we always get tops marks for our flavour in contests. That did not change when we added our RO 5 years ago. For an operation our size it's the easiest way to drastically improve efficiency. We went from boiling 20+ hour days when it ran well to an 8 hour day by adding a 600GPH RO. The syrup might be a bit lighter in colour because we get more frequent runoffs but not much.

[RileySugarbush]

At reasonable levels of concentration, R/O seems like a great thing. Small hobbyists try to achieve the same effect when discarding the ice in buckets or tanks to reduce boil times and fuel usage. I like dark syrup, and moving from steam table batch processing to a 2x6 lightened up my syrup. An R/O would probably lighten it up a bit more. If someone offered me one at a good price, would I accept? Of course!

[Dave Y]

The number one reason i would have an RO , to be able to make more syrup. I boil any where from 10 -16 hrs a day and love it. However if I could get a 6x16 rig in a building for less money I would buy it then max it out before going to an RO. But hey thats me!

[Acer]

Dammit, knew I should have gotten that patent application in last week.

Dean