Insulating brick or fire brick?

[shortround]

In a wood fired evaporator, is it better to use insulating brick or fire brick in the fire box?

What about brick in the flue area?

What should the slope angle be from the firebox to the stack?

While not a maple syrup maker, too far south, I intend to make sorghum syrup this fall. I wasn't able to this last year due to the remnants of a couple hurricanes destroying all my sorghum and the deployment of some 3000+ of our National Guardsmen to Iraq. However, I plan to retire on the first of Feburary and will have time available that I haven't had in several years.

I've seen lots of information in here as to firebox sizes, ramp or no ramp, stack sizes, forced air pros and cons, raised or drop flue pans, and a wealth of other information that has generated even more questions in my mind. Much of the technology presently used in sorghum syrup making is mostly late 1800's to early 1900's vintage while the technology for maple continues to improve.

I've noticed that there are some individuals in here that are interested in making sorghum syrup. The technique isn't too much different and the maple equipment could easily be utilized, especially with batch or continous flow type pans. With a conversion rate of approximately 8:1, a lot of syrup could be produced in a much shorter time. Syrup production rates vary from 125 - 250 gallons per acre(1000 - 2000 gallons of juice).

Getting the sorghum juice is a whole different animal and does require some specialized equipment. Harvesting is very labor intensive.

I would like to discuss various aspects of your operations in order to learn more and better ways to run mine.

This site has been a great source of information already. Keep up the good work.

Bruce and Rock
Weather Dry Creek Farm
Avilla, Arkansas

[brookledge]

Do you have an evaporator yet?
As for the bricking at the very least you need to use fire brick and the use of 1" arch board plus the brick is better. Dependining on the type of evaporator (drop or raised flue) would affect the distance or the height of the bricks after it leaves the fire box. In my case i filled the arch with vermiculite and then layed brick to bring it to the level I wanted
Keith

[shortround]

Keith, No evaporator yet. I'm in the process of finalizing the design. Got most of the materials in place.
I'm using a Stephens style batch pan 30" wide at the base, 51.25" at the top, and 72" long. The Stephens pans are characterized by having the sides flair out instead of being vertical. Kinda like this \__/ A 5 x 8 sheet will have enough material to build the pan with minimal waste. The pan has a capacity of approximately 135 gallons of juice which will produce about 17 gallons of syrup in four hours or so. "Supposedly, as per his patent", the flaired sides promote rapid removal of water during the initial cooking phase, while reducing the chances of scorching in the finishing stage. The flair also makes the removal of skimmings easier, especially with the addition of a gutter.

The arch will be of a Grimm/Cook design. Cook internals and Grimm externals. Cook was real good at arch design and construction. However, his arch for a 44" x 144" continous flow (baffled) pan weighed somewhere around 20 tons. Grimm's at least looked "portable".

I still have some questions about the firebox and the ramp transition to the stack. Some fireboxes have a low wall at the back of the box with a steep angle rise to around the middle of the pan, then a slight rise to the stack. Others have a high wall at the back of the firebox and then a slight rise under the pan to the stack. This transition is what is making me scratch my head. Many of the old write ups used wood, coal, the crushed cane, or combinations of all as fuel. All had different burning rates and characteristics.

From what I've read, the stack size and the exit part of the flue/ramp area should be the same. That area should be 1/10 of the length x width of the firebox. In other words, a 20" x 25" firebox should have an 8" stack. The gap between the bottom of the back ramp and the bottom of a 25" wide flat pan should be no more than 2".

Lots of questions to go.

Bruce at the Creek at 04something in the morning

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have helped make sorgums before and I am no expert, but I think you need to boil them longer than 4 hours. It is a much slower boil than maple syrup due to the high sugar content, having to skim them constantly and the high probability of scorching them or boiling them over with a lot of fire. You don't have to have a high tech firebox because a little heat will go a long way because of the high sugar content. A good firebox design won't hurt anything and would probably help, but not as important as maple syrup. Your pan design is a very good idea because it allows you to hold a lot more than a straight sided pan would. You can even do the ends the same way with a 5x10 sheet to be able to hold as much as possible.

Good luck with your endevors and hopefully you will have a great growing season this year.

[shortround]

Brandon, I've got a good friend over in Bluefield. Retired Army SF.
Slight miscalculation on the evaporation rate there, should be closer to 6 -7 hours on the cook off, after it comes to a boil. Had too many figures on a sheet of paper. The reason for the size and shape is that the capacity just happens to match the capacity of my holding tanks on the mill. Besides, the juice will spoil/stary fermenting pretty quick. However, I like the thought process.
Everything I've seen for sorghum leans toward a non forced air system. Steady heat and a nice rolling boil. While maybe not scorching, the juice can leap about pretty good and end up making a real mess. I may want to look at a damper system to regulate the heat. It's difficult to figure this out without having a pan full of juice to play with.
Appreciate the comments. Any and all are welcome.

Bruce

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Bruce,

Sounds like you are on the right track. I live about 45 minutes from Bluefield and my sugarhouse is about 70 minutes from there.

You have the right mindset and you will perfect everything after you do it a few times.