Contemplating tubing system

[paemtp]

I know this may sound crazy, but we only tap about 200 trees each year, and have been collecting with food grade 2 gal buckets for the past 6 years. We probably could tap another 50-100 trees but just don't have the time to collect it all. We have a 125 gallon poly tank in our JD Gator but once you get past 70 gallons you are doing wheelies.

I have a bad back due to 27 years of being a firefighter/paramedic, but want to keep the tradition going. My sugar house is at the bottom of a decent slope and wonder if I can get by with gravity tubing into my collection tank or should I invest in a vacuum system which I know is quite expensive.

Any thoughts would be helpful?

Thanks!
John R. Ash
Sweet Valley, PA

[Clan Delaney]

Set that poly tank at the bottom of your hill (or right next to your shack) and go with the tubing. With the right slope, gravity and the weight of all the sap in the lines can create a natural vacuum, pulling almost as much sap from the trees as a mechanical vacuum.

[Hop Kiln Road]

John - "Only" two hundred buckets!!! My back aches just reading that. Get some 1/2" pipe on gravity and you'll be a very happy guy kicking back in the sugarhouse. Bruce

[3% Solution]

paemtp,
Ahhhh the life of being a firefighter, it's a great job for the young!!!!
Now about using buckets or piping it .............. pipr it, it's like one stop shopping!!!!
The way it sounds you should let the sap come to you, right off that sidehill right into the tank at the sugarhouse!!!!!
Yeah, that's what I'd do.
Now when you put your mainline(s) in, get them big enough for future expansion (because you will expand) and think about adding vacumn in the near future (you'll do this too!).
The initial investment maybe steep, but you'll love it and the payback will be quick with that many taps.
Yup that's my thoughts!!

Dave

[Grade "A"]

You may get a little less sap this tubing without vacuum but it is a small price to pay to save your back. If your like me, I spilled most of the sap I collected with buckets anyway. Like others said after you put up the tubing it is easy to add vacuum later on if you want it.

[cncaboose]

If your back is bad then the tubing is probably the way to go because you can't put a pricetag on having your back seize up. I speak from experience after 28 years of doctoring cows. To give some of the opposite point of view though, there are some advantages to the buckets. To start with, you already have them and a tubing system is going to cost you more than just a little bit of money and labor. Second, the tubing system will continue to cost you more labor out of the normal sugaring season and will have to be replaced and repaired periodically. Your current buckets will last the rest of your life if you take care of them with no additional expense. Third, there are advantages to knowing just how much sap each individual tree and tap are making and being able to test individual trees for sugar content, all done easily with a bucket system. This can help you with future culling and tapping decisions. Fourth, don't think that tubing will get you out of having to walk the woods regularly during sugaring, you will need to check the tubing regularly for leaks, squirrel damage, tree limbs, etc. Maybe a combination of tubing and buckets is the route for you if you want to expand. Just carry less in your collection pails at any given time. There's my piece to give some arguments for the bucket side.

[Haynes Forest Products]

How big is the sugar bush? I vote for the tubing. Either way you will walk the area to tap the trees and if you collect twice a day you only have to inspect as YOU see fit. With trails in the woods from your Gator inspecting is a ride in the woods and can be fun. Repairs in a new system other than storm damage and tree limbs and critters is minimal. I think you will enjoy the time in the sap shack with willing helpers making syrup. Add up all the time in a season that you spend dumping ice,rainwater,blown off buckets. Think how much sap you lose due to over flowing buckets and spilled collecting pails. A nice 200 tap bush on tubing is a wonderful thing and when its up and running. How many times have you not gone someplace because you had to hit the woods? When it snows 12" all the digging getting stuck,time spent cold wet feet. You could be in that warm sap shack talking about that stupid cat that got caught in the..............................never mind

[jtthibodeau]

I know this may sound crazy, but we only tap about 200 trees each year, and have been collecting with food grade 2 gal buckets for the past 6 years. We probably could tap another 50-100 trees but just don't have the time to collect it all. We have a 125 gallon poly tank in our JD Gator but once you get past 70 gallons you are doing wheelies.

I have a bad back due to 27 years of being a firefighter/paramedic, but want to keep the tradition going. My sugar house is at the bottom of a decent slope and wonder if I can get by with gravity tubing into my collection tank or should I invest in a vacuum system which I know is quite expensive.

Any thoughts would be helpful?

Thanks!
John R. Ash
Sweet Valley, PA
Good Morning all,
I would think, if you have a decent slope (5% or more grade) tubing would work fine. I'm kind of in the same boat as you in considering the amount of taps set. In my particular case, 100 or so taps have only one to two percent slope until I'm within 200 feet of my so called sugar house so I felt that some vac would help.

I use a 1/2 inch main line with 2 or 3 poly food grade barrels inside my shack for storage, which sits at the lowest point. Seeing that this hobby is darn near non-profit, I had to consider cost. So the "Rube" in me went to work.

I decided to use (please don't laugh) the RV water pump sitting on the work shop shelf. I've got the pump piped in to apply vac to the line as it's trying to draw liquid (they can operate dry) as well as pumping the sap around the shack to other barrels or the pre-heater, as needed, by turning a valve or two.

With my system working without leaks (slight ones are OK, kinda like a releaser), I've learned how well things are operating by watching the speed of the air bubbles pass by in the 5/16 line which pass by a window. If I have a leak, the speed of the bubbles slow down or act irregular so, I know I have to take a walk to check things out.

The little pump will actually create enough draw in the lateral lines to cause a slight hiss that can be heard from 10 feet away or so, if there is a problem.

How much vac does it create? I have no idea. It just seems to help and I don't have to handle any sap except for those few buckets I do have. The pump also will pump the sap from buckets to storage barrels also, so it's one less chance to create a spill.

Oh, and a new pump will run about $50 to $60 bucks. I've actually bought a second one....just in case!

[NH Maplemaker]

jtthibodeau, Now for a small back yard set up with a 1/2 " main that is a great idea !!

paempt, it will pay you to compare prices of 1/2 and 3/4 inch pipe before buying!! Bigger isn't that much more.But if you haft to replace it later, Now you have double the price!! Also check with friends that may have an account at pluming supplier. Big Difference in price as well. Yesterday for 1" x 300' pipe 100 PSI without account ($136.00 ),with account ($84.00) Jim L.

[Grade "A"]

To give you a rough idea, it cost me around $400 to put up tubing for 200 taps and 400' of 3/4" mainline. My mainline runs into a 55 gal drum with a 1/2 hp water pump hooked to a float switch to pump it up into the sugarhouse

[Jeff E]

I love that idea of Jerry and Terry T's!!!

Thats is the typical wonder working syrup man going at it!
I remember talking with a local commercial producer here about tubing. I had 350 buckets and bags, 2 years out from back surgery, and feeling rung out after a 4 day sap run.

He was in his 70's, doing a 3000 tap operation. (thats why I stopped by) He just grinned at me as I went through the list of why nots, and then told me I could overcome it all if I wanted, tap every tree around, and work less during the season.

He was right!!! Tube it Man, Tube it!

[jtthibodeau]

Thanks Jeff,
As NH Maplemaker said, "for a small back yard set up", it works. We don't make a ton of money on this adventure. It's only a hobby so, we try and keep the expenditures down. Hopefully, we make enough to cover yearly cost and keep it as much fun as possible, especially for the kids.

But, the disease is still there! More taps, more taps......

[maple flats]

If you get to that point Vacuum will increase sap flow but you will have to find everything at super cheap prices and used or that zize operation will take forever to pay for itself. The Leader maple catalog shows payback for 1.4 seasons on a 500 tap setup. Of course this is everything new. That may not be devisable evenly to get 200 taps payback. I do not know what fixed factors you need to figure for the math th convert it. For one thing I think the 500 tap equipment might be the smallest if you go new so you might need to use that as a cost but you would have fewer taps for increased sap so the number could be rather long payback. If you try however you should be able to get everything used at a decent savings. I know, that is what I plan to do for vac in a year or 2.

[dano2840]

Tubing Is Your Friend Once Its Up Its Up And It All Comes Right Down To Your Sugar House. Whats There To Loose?

[caseyssugarshack93]

Once you go tubing you will never go back , but i may say i still like to hang atleast 200 buckets cause i like the looks and the tradition:]


nate