Bottling

[Haynes Forest Products]

How do you bottle syrup?........Well Chuck why do you ask?

I bottle my syrup by first getting it to the right density in the finishing pan and recirculater it back into the finish pan to get the press good and hot and to get the hoses cleaned out and full of nice clean syrup and I pump into clean bottler and maintain at about 200-210 degrees.

1)Remove bottle from box fill with syrup
2)Remove cap from bag and cap bottle within 5 seconds
3)Tighten as tight as possible without stripping threads (plastic)
4)Place bottle on side to sterialize inside of cap 15 seconds
5)Place bottle in water bath to wash bottle and place on table
by open window with fan blowing to cool down before boxing and stacking

Now to the question Why do I get mold in some bottles not all crappity black and white mold that stinks but a thin layer of off white mold that shrinks and floats on top of the sap and quits growing. I dont know when or how fast it grew because it sat in my cool storage room in the basement in the dark.

Things I think I should do differant

1)Heat the caps to 250 degrees before using
2)do not allow ANY sap on the lip befor caping (impossible) A.D.D A.D.H.D. and to much beer
3) Do not cool down the bottles so fast
4) do not use caps that are left over from last year even though I store them in a plastic container.

I was told that you dont even need to tip the bottles because the steam will condense on the inside of the cap and your good.

So let me have it what is it Im doing wrong. I have always sold my syrup bulk and now I have a chance to sell all the syrup I have but I have to bottle and label with thair lables and I dont want any problems and I dont have the ability to quorintine the product.

[mapleman3]

200 to the filter press is normal_- but bottle at 180-190deg. Does it happen in glass at all? I suspect the seal on the cap or a bad lot of jugs. Sounds like air got in. Don't heat the caps. They will soften. And the syrup too hot may be warping the jug neck. Also the wash may be cooling the neck and keeping it warped just a bit. Thus bad seal and allowing just a bit of air in

[mountainvan]

My thought is that you don't leave the hot syrup in contact with the cap long enough. I leave my bottles on their side or upside down till they're cool.

[mapleman3]

They say all it has to do is touch the cap momentarily... so that shouldn't be the problem

[Haynes Forest Products]

I was talking about glass bottles with metal caps. Most times my supplier gives me metal caps which i like better because you can crank them down But I like the safty seal neck of the plastic. I could use the heat shrink covers on the metal caps but I dont sell them so I dont worry about it.
I bottled about 400 small jugs in 08 and didnt like the way the caps strip or seam to cross thread or looked crooked. I also had some mold in a few jugs and because you cant see into the jug Im thinking of scrapping them back into this years syrup and not use them. I heard that if you get a little amount of sap on the lip it will cause problems. So if you get a dribble on it how do you clean the lip without contaminating it? I was leary of wiping the jug with a clean cloth because you will spread the problem.

[mapleman3]

Hmmm Glass.... ok I still do think its a seal problem..... I haven't done a tremendous amount of glass but still have some from years ago on display that still look the same as when they were bottled. I may suspect the caps... I have only used plastic caps and I think they may seal better(maybe whatever is in the cap for a seal may help) I look forward to see what some others say too.

and also a wax seal could be used over the caps(some do that for decoration and protection)

[Clan Delaney]

You mention your first step is to remove the bottle from the box. Silly question, but are the bottles clean? Something I learned from bottling beer - never trust that anything is clean or sterile unless you've done it yourself.

I didn't do a lot of bottling last year, but what bottles I used (plastic) were rinsed with very hot water and let to drip dry upside down on a towel for 10 minutes or so before filling them. The wet towel makes a kind of seal to keep out any air until you're ready to use them. They were filled, capped immediately (caps were rinsed in warm water as well), inverted and left to cool on their own. Didn't see any mold on any bottles we've opened this year. No one I sold to mentioned anything either.

[brookledge]

The answer is clear. It is that Wisconsin syrup. Just kidding!!
I read your method and I do not see anything that sticks out as being obvious. I keep my syrup between 185 and 190 to keep the syrup from releasing more nitre. If you were getting nitre release it would settle out on the bottom or the syrup would be alittle cloudy.
Are you sure on the density? If it is alittle low it could be causing it. Otherwise with 50 ml bottles the bottles need to be warm because there just isn't enough syrup to sterilize it.
Also make sure you have good liability ins. Ther is always someone out there looking to make a buck by saying they got sick on a product.
Keith

[Haynes Forest Products]

My method is what everyone else was doing . Two other producers do about the same thing and that is what I followed. I have to think its the Glass its made back east. The one thing that comes to mind is the person putting the cap on is not getting them tight. I dont get niter build up its stays nice and clear.

[3% Solution]

Haynes,
Can't be made in New Hampsha, we make good glass!!!!
We do glass and we don't have a problem with any mold.
Tell you what, in the morning, I'll go out and unpack the glass that we have done up and check it out.
We never go above 190 for a temperature as it will release niter if it's 200 or over (same as brookledge said).
I'll get back to you!!

Dave

[NH Maplemaker]

I always rinse every jug or bottle in supper hot water before filling and lay them on there side until cool like Van ! As Jim stated it only takes a second at that temp. But if a second is good, longer is better. If syrup gets on the out side of. jug I wipe it off with clean rage and hot water! I feel water bath and cool air and fan may be cooling to fast! But Could be wrong! Jim L.

[ennismaple]

Sometimes it happens. Sounds like you are taking proper precautions. Could be a bad container (if plastic or metal), or a bad cap or seal. I find it happens more with small containers because the volume to surface area ratio is lower meaningt he syrup cools a lot before it can be sealed.

[3% Solution]

Haynes FP,
Just checked my glass from last year and the syrup looks fine.
Maybe the covers were bad.

Dave

[Haynes Forest Products]

Thanks 3% Im starting to lean towards the caps and how tight they are. I think some are not getting the extra twist they need.

[maplehound]

haynes
Let me put my 2 cents in here. I bottle in a lot of glass and have had simular problems in the past. My suggestion is first to make sure that the syrup is at least 190 deg. not just 180, the glass has a tendency to cool the syrup fast especially if the glass has been stored in a cool area. 2'nd if the glass is a heavier type such as the Bisque's then you should heat the glass up to about 200 deg before putting the syrup in them, this keeps the syrup and the seal hot longer till it has a chance to seal. I just leave mine on there side for about 5 minutes and have been known to set them back up after just 1 minute without any problem. 3'rd if you do get some syrup on the lip of the bottle take a damp clean towel and dab it off, also keep the syrup level about 1/4" down from the top.
I hope these suggestions help. I have never heated the caps ahead of time and would be afraid of doing so since it would activate the seal before coming in contact with the bottle ( like activate a glue to soon before using it)
Good Luck

[Sugarmaker]

Haynes A lot of good advice here. I have had intermittent problems with the with mold on 250 ml glass also. I have not found the answer but I do have a suggestion from a local sugar maker who does a lot of glass and has for years.
And it relates to your process.
(I believe they can near 180+ for the syrup temp.) (Plastic jug Supplier Sugarhill now recommending syrup temp 175 F max and no need to tip them over)
Then place the filled glass jars in a warm oven 200 deg for like 10-15 min then take out and cap. Not sure if they turn them on there side? I guess I need to ask them.
Anyway this is the exact opposite of your cooling process after canning.
I don't do heat the glass after canning maybe that's the problem I have had too?
I do know that my galls bottle are sometimes cold/ cool from being in the sugar house and I try to warm them up on top of the canner but rally not sure of the temp.
Also I like the plastic lids better than the metal ones.

Sorry I don't have the exact answer We only sell several cases of glass. But like you I hate to put a product out there that might mold.
Also as someone mentioned re-check your density and go on the heavy side.?

Chris

[Haynes Forest Products]

I Have helped other producers that do alot of wholsale to small stores winerys and they go from the finish pan threw the filter press and into the canner and one guy uses a 3 gallon elec coffee pot and fills lays on side and boxes the next day. The other same thing but into a water jacket canner and then out on the wood trailer overnight. I used to bottle and put in box upside down and then stack all the boxws and 2 days later they were still warm. I was warned about stack burn from the syrup turning darker over time from hot stacking. We bottle about 20 cases at a time so heating bottles or heating in the oven is a labor intensive idea even washing the bottles first.

[Sugarmaker]

Haynes,
I agree with 20 cases at a time it would be to much to heat/ hold the syrup in a oven. That would be a lot of extra moves to make. So I guess know one has answered you question yet? I will be watching to see if the answer surfaces.

Chris

[danno]

I don't know if I missed it - what % of your bottles are molding?

As soon as it's bottled, it goes right on its side overnight. That said, I get mold in 3 or 4 bottles total out of 10 cases every season. No idea why - I do all the bottleing and I know the metal caps are tight and the bottles are all filled the same way.

As I can't see through plastic, I don't know if any of my plastic molds - I certainly hope not. Have never had a customer mention it.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I think all the feedback is a start. I think a few more quality controls are in store for the next time I bottle. With 10 bottles out of maybe 200 I feel that maybe Im getting low syrup temps as I get to the bottom of the bottler I turn the heat down or off so I dont burn it. BUT with more outside air in the bottler and possible lower temps because the temp prob is out of the syrup and the burner turned off for the last 1/2 gallon. It was only in the 12OZ light syrup so Im narrowing it down to 6 cases of syrup. I made my bottler out of a SS canister that has a dome bottom like a wine bottle and it doesnt have a positive drain so you have to tip it to get it to drain and it drains slow. When I do that maybe the syrup cools down from the sides. I need a reason to scrap it and build a better one. But hey keep the ideas coming looks like im not the only one working on the problem.

[brookledge]

Haynes
I think you are on to it. The last bit in a canner could be your problem. I have gotten in the habit to can all my smaller sizes that I'm planning first and work my way to the larger ones and if I'm only doing small ones like 50 ml I will have more syrup than needed in the canner and finish off with a 1/2 gal container or just refrigerate it.
Keith

[maple flats]

I have also gotten some mold. I bottle at 185-195 and I made an enclosed shelving unit with an open back that hangs on the basestack of the evaporater. The open back side is against the stack. The glass I set in there is so hot I need to use a glove to handle it after about 10-15 minutes but I have not used a thermometer on the glass. The "oven" has a 1/4" hole in one side and I insert a long probed thermometer in there. Temps typically are between 200 and 225, but do vary some from there both up and down depending on whether I am bottling alone and lose a firing or 2 or if I have help to keep things running smoother. I fill the bottles, tighten the cap and tip them on a rack i have that holds the cap end about 25-30 degrees angle downward. I leave them for a minute or 2. I end up with a few that mold (maybe 1%) and do not know why. This "oven" I made was build last year to eliminate the mold, it helped but did not eliminate it. I have had mold on all types of glass but the one I get most is one that is designed like a salad dressing bottle with a short thread, large diameter cap. I may discontinue those for that reason but I have about 7-8 dozen left now.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I dont have a mold problem with the bigger containers, just the 12 oz. I bottled all my Quarts and 1/2 gallons right out of the filter press using the bypass as my way of controling the flow. I think the bigger the container the more heat for a longer period of time is the key.

[Elynch77]

Just thinking about old school canning with grandma. There is always that extra twist after the tops cool you have to give them before you take them to the basement. Not a big deal on the two part canning lids but if the seal and thread are on the same piece it could mess things up. Just got an update. Angela's Grandmother always said keep them away from drafts since it messes up the seals.

I am working on my own bottler since I need to make something wife and child friendly. I'll be looking to see how yours turns out. I am going with an old coffee dispenser. I have some old Army 3 & 8 Gal. insulated coffee things from a mess kit. They are stainless with a good spigot and the lid is big enough to get your arm in. Now I just have to figure out how to put a burner under it and how hot the insulation can get before it burns.

Ethan

[Clan Delaney]

This is the second or third time I've read something here about using a coffee dispenser as a bottler. Was a bit confused at first... thought people were talking about something like my Mr. Coffee. We're talking about those giant stainless things you see at church luncheons and PTA meetings, right? Can they get hot enough to bottle syrup? I suppose if they can keep coffee piping hot, they should.

[ackerman75]

Clan,
I have three of the 60 cup coffee pots, they range from 181 to 192 "just right" Take the stem and strainer out put your filters on top "I use clothespins to hold filters" dump finished syrup in, turn on coffee pot and bottle using valve at bottom :)

[Clan Delaney]

Clan,
I have three of the 60 cup coffee pots, they range from 181 to 192 "just right" Take the stem and strainer out put your filters on top "I use clothespins to hold filters" dump finished syrup in, turn on coffee pot and bottle using valve at bottom :)

Crazy! Time to start looking for a used one then.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Alot of the big units have the elec coil on the bottom so its always submerged in liquid and can burn the syrup if you get to the last little layer.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Ebay 22 cup electric like new $8.00 item no 290287619808
30 cup 120355380270 $3.58
35 cup 260343255004 $9.99
30 cup 350150126558 $9.99
48 cup 360122094961 $9.99
101 cup 300285582887 $46.99

[Russell Lampron]

Clan if you get a used one that has had coffee in it you need to get some of the cleaner that the coffee services use to clean it. A new one is the way to go and dedicate it to just maple.

[maplehound]

Clan, I agree with russell. Stay away from used coffee pots. For about $125 you should be able to get a new one and then just use it for syrup. At todays prices 3 gallons of syrup pays for it and it will be as good as new if you ever need to get something bigger.

[Haynes Forest Products]

What is the danger of using a CLEANED out coffee pot. I know people that bottle 200 gallons every year from a used pot with less problems than I have. I would use CLR and if it doesnt eat the metal Muriatic acid and heat to the max and soak with clear water under heat. Some people dont make 3 gallons of syrup in a year. Paying $10.00 for a complete heated bottler with valve plug and cover sounds good to me.

[maple flats]

You can never get the coffee taste out. You might also want to check a beekeepers supply. They have elec pots in SS to heat the honey, and have a spigot to dispense. They are all SS. Most of the coffee pots you see at churches etc are aluminum. Aluminum is not as good because it also can impart an off taste to your good syrup. Aluminum actually comes off in whatever you heat or cook in them, albeit very little but non the less it leaves a taste, especially when heating in it.

[davey]

Before I bought a canner I bought a used coffee urn on ebay for about 8 bucks. Make sure it is stainless steel of course and as far as worrying about burning syrup as it gets lower, I always shut mine down at about a half pot and never had a problem. for the initial cleaning I used pan cleaner and water and then vinegar and water and then just a water rinse and the thing worked great for me. In fact, once in awhile I still use it if I just need to repackage a gallon or two into pints, much easier to clean afterwards

[maple flats]

I just googled stainless steel coffee urn, apparently there are in fact many in SS, my error.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Im still looking for the HOLY GRAIL of coffee makers I did find one but they had thrown it in the scrap bin and it was bent up and broken. The big square one that stand about 40" high with the water jacket and sight tubes and they are doubble tank.............WHOOOOOO all SS

[Acer]

like dat?

http://cgi.ebay.com/LARGE-REGAL-COFFEE-URN-12-TO-102-CUPS-VINTAGE-WORKS_W0QQitemZ260344887746QQihZ016QQcategoryZ3825 1QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/DELONGHI-DCU60T-60-CUP-STAINLESS-STEEL-COFFEE-MAKER-URN_W0QQitemZ170292748527QQihZ007QQcategoryZ67134Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[brookledge]

You need to test them because not every one will go up to 185-195. You might be able to get to the thermostat and turn it up but if it is sealed and only gets up to say 175 it's not going to work.
Keith

[davey]

I took my thermostat out and used a thermometer to monitor the temp, unplugged or plugged in as needed

[brookledge]

That will work too.
Keith

[Haynes Forest Products]

Those babies are nice but the BIG DADDY is square and has sight tubes with metal rods that hold the glass tubes in and its got to be 30" wide 30"high 16" deep SS 220V

[Russell Lampron]

Acer, the second one is stainless steel so that one is the type to look for.

[dkr]

I found mold in some of our bottles and started looking at all the metal caps we were using,some were just paper lined and some had paper and a plastic ring for the seal. We found after storing the caps left over the caps without the plastic ring were the ones that did'nt seal it seems like the paper ones would swell up slightly by the next season,maybe from storing them in sugar shack and would not make a good seal to the bottle. If the cap gets wet the seal most likely will leak. We now only use the metal caps with plastic ring seal.

[davey]

Agreed, the second link looks like a nice unit

[NH Maplemaker]

Haynes, Is this the one you are referring to? We have used the old propane one for years and this year we have replaced it with this new electric one!!They can be found at a restaurant supply store. They work really well, but the only downside is that they are not cheap. Jim L.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/Maplemaker/coffee%20urn%20canner/DSCF0481.jpg


http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/Maplemaker/coffee%20urn%20canner/DSCF0482.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/Maplemaker/coffee%20urn%20canner/DSCF0483.jpg

[NH Maplemaker]

For more details on picture captions go to my photobucket album under coffee urn. Jim L.

[Jeff E]

To chime in on the mold issue, mold can come from 1 of 3 causes:
1. Inadequate syrup temp for sterilization
2. Poor seal allowing contamination of syrup after bottling
3. Syrup with below standard density. Creates an environment that is advantageous for mold growth.

This was the first year I had any molding on my glass jars. I guess I had about 6 or 7 pints/quarts get a small, light colored mold, shaped like a cresent moon.

It is also the first year I used a small filter press for bottling.
In my case, I am convinced it is caused by the syrup getting to cool before filling and sealing the last bottles. I am going to try filtering into a heated bottling unit this year, and a coffee urn may be the ticket.

My glass is capped with metal, and I can always tell if I have a good seal because the cap is 'dimpled' in from the vacuum caused by syrup shrinkage.
If the cap is not dimpled the next morning when I box the bottles up, it would get redone with the next batch.

The other problem is having the syrup not get to the right density. This is why I keep the hydrometer close at hand and check every draw off of syrup.

Jeff

[Haynes Forest Products]

NH MapleMaker WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO that is the HOLY GRAIL BIG DADDY and Im willing to swap out a 38 year young wife that can run the evaporater and has borne me to good kids just dont let her back up your truck. I would like to say all kidding aside but that is a Dandy! Does it have the water jacket? and do you lock the sugar shack. I can have her packed and ready to go by mornin.

[Haynes Forest Products]

MapleMaker Just checked the GPS and I can be there in 28 hrs. Kattey Bar the door.

[NH Maplemaker]

Haynes,Yes it has the water jacket and can bring syrup temp up over 200 degrees,(I know that to high) But it will do it!! As far as the sugar house goes! I have a French Mastiff and he's 165lbs and he's not what you call a peoples dog. So yes we do lock the door but only as a formality.LOL Did you see the pick of the old one? Jim L.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Now your showing off. Would it help if I threw in one of the kids. That is a nice set up. Do you have a freezing problem with to water one? OK break my heart what did you have to give for it.

[NH Maplemaker]

No freezing ,we clean and drain it at the end of everyday ! That is the only down side,We don't have running water in the sugar house. So we fill water jacket by hand at start of the day. Had to give $6.00.00 for it. But it should last as long as me!! As far as the kid in trade,I have 2 I can't seem to get rid of ! (keep coming back)
Seriously, this unit works really well for keeping syrup hot and for canning when ready. I have another unit that I use for reheating and canning from bulk. It would work good for smaller producers. I will try to take some picture and post later with explanation. Jim L.

[Amber Gold]

Jim, what's the capacity of your canner? That's a nice looking rig and for $600 that's a lot cheaper than a Waterloo water jacketed canning unit and it has three spouts! Does that mean you work three times as fast?

[NH Maplemaker]

Josh, I'm pretty sure that it is 4gal each side! and water jacket holds around 4 gal . That hot water is nice to clean up with! If you had running water in the shack it will refill it's self !! I haft to watch the sit tub and make sure it doesn't get low! Now that was $600.00 slightly used.The trick is to find one ! The place were I got it isn't that far from you in Scarborough,Maine. If you want info PM me. I'll bet Royal Maple knows right were this place is!! Jim L.

[Amber Gold]

I'm all set for this year, but if my retail business takes off then next year I'll likely be interested in something like that. I've already got a 16x24 filter/canning unit so I'm all set this year. Thanks Jim.

[Haynes Forest Products]

NH Maplemaker Have you tried RV antifreeze? Do the valves vent threw the site tube for no drippig?

[NH Maplemaker]

Haynes, Yes valves vent Thu the tubes. But I guess I'm not sure what you mean about rv antifreeze ! It drains completely out with no problem. So no real need to put antifreeze in it. Now this year with it being electric I could leave it turned on low and it would be fine! Jim L.

[NH Maplemaker]

Here are some pictures of a unit that works very well as a caner. I pick it up at Cabela's.I looked at it a few time trying to decide if it would for reheating my bulk syrup for canning!! Well, it works great. It has adjustable temp control. It will heat cooking oil up to 400 degrees. Has a draw off valve on the bottom.(that doesn't quite get last little bit of syrup out) Comes completely apart for cleaning.Unit has a digital read out for temp/mode. Holds 28 Qts of syrup. I have heated 4 + gal of cold syrup to 185 Degrees in 1/2 hour !! This unit coast me $149.99 ! Check it out !! Jim L.

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/Maplemaker/coffee%20urn%20canner/DSCF0484.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/Maplemaker/coffee%20urn%20canner/DSCF0487.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/Maplemaker/coffee%20urn%20canner/DSCF0485.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj3/Maplemaker/coffee%20urn%20canner/DSCF0488.jpg

[Amber Gold]

Jim, not bad you can go from canning syrup to making fries with the same machine. Now that's a multi-tasker.

I think I like the other one better. Larger capacity, three spouts, and it's water jacketed. That's a nice setup.

[NH Maplemaker]

Josh, Yes I like the big one also!,But it doesn't heat bulk syrup up that well!! (takes forever) But this little baby heat syrup supper fast!! But I like your french fry idea ! May haft to put that into the 2009 operating plan !! Jim L.

[NH Maplemaker]

Kinda thought that more smaller producers would have been interested in this unit as a caner! As it will do it all. Hold temperature, reheat and can also be used as a caner Thur valve on the bottom ! Jim L.

[Haynes Forest Products]

does the element get so hot that it burns syrup as the level goes down or does it only heat at the bottom.

[NH Maplemaker]

Haynes, I have not had that problem. I have only reheated and canned about 20gal and it worked fine. Yes the heating element only heats on the bottom and the temp can be adjusted up or down as need. The Maple Guys sell a Bottling unit with a foot pedal that will screw on the valve for filling jugs or small bottles !! Jim L.

[Clan Delaney]

I just thought of something today...

I bottle beer, and I've found it convenient to prep all of my glassware during the off-season (now, basically). In a nutshell, I rinse each clean bottle and upend them to drip dry. It's not important to get them all dry, you actually want some water in them. Next, each of them gets a "cap" of heavy duty aluminum foil, hand crimped onto the top and neck. Then they all go into an oven at 338 degrees F for an hour. At that temp and time, dry heat will guarantee those bottles are sterile. Any moisture trapped inside the bottle will actually help to sterilze. They come out and air dry to cool and then go into storage. When you're ready to bottle, peel back the foil, fill and cap. I've bottled into glassware that's been in storage for 3 years like this and never had one skunk on my from contamination.

Granted, this won't work for plastic, and for those of you with a large operation and use lots of glass, you sure aren't going to want to have to do this during the actual sugaring season.

And here's a thought that's even crazier...

The way I see it, if your glassware is clean, then mold has to be getting in when you fill the bottles. Since it's spores we're worried about, then the only way you can be sure that your bottles/caps don't get contaminated is to keep them from being exposed to air. Pretty impossible. But! What if you bottled in the airflow of an ionic air purifier? Or set up a clear box to surround your canner, and fed purified air into it?

Or, just accept that a few bottles will get mold in them. :D

[Dennis H.]

I like the turkey frier/Steamer idea.
I am planning on aking a run to Cabelas sometime this week I will have to see if they have one in stock.

I think the best part of the steamer is that you can set the temp. I know that I could find a coffee urn cheaper but getting it to stay at a set temp might not be a simple feat.

Is the valve on the front easy to use to fill bottles? It looks like it sets back in a little.

[NH Maplemaker]

Dennis, The valve could stick out a little further,But it is workable. If you get to Cabela's and they don't know anything about it, here some numbers off the box.It is model #20010306 Bar cord is 094428260719 ! This company that made it has a website www.masterbuilt.com the companies Phone # is 1-800-489-1581. Hope this helps!! If you end needing companies address just PM me.

Jim L.

[Dennis H.]

Thanks for the info, I checked Cabelas website, can't tell if it is a stocked item in the stores or not.
So it was able to set the temp to 180 on the controller?

I will look when I go this week.

I also looked at the coffee urns and a question I have is how can you tell if they will get hot enough for hot packing syrup?
I saw a few that had two temps, one fro brewing and one to keep warm but it didn't say what the temps were.

Not sure if I will need one of these fancy bottlers but then again I never thought of using a coffee urn or now a turkey frier either, so for being as cheap as they are I just might have to get one, depends on how much syrup I make this year.

[RickinFarmington]

I just picked up a new in the box SS coffee urn to use for bottling. Filled it to the top with water and checked the temp once it was stabilized, and found 185 degrees. Dumped out half of the water and tested temp 15 minutes later and still registered 185.
For my small 10-15 gallon operation, I think I have a workable bottler.

Rick

[Dennis H.]

Hey Rick what brand is it and where did yo find it? If you don't mind me asking that is?
How many gals did it hold?

I also only make a few gals so something small would be great.

[NH Maplemaker]

I think the difference between the coffee urn and the steamer/fryer is that it will take a very long time for a small coffee pot/urn to bring cold syrup up to 185 degrees!! In my large commercial urn it takes for ever ! That's why I was looking for Something a lot faster. This unit is capable of temp well over 200 degrees and in a very short time !! Don't forget that consistence of water is a lot different than syrup ! Just my thoughts ! Now if you heated the syrup frist than put it in the coffee pot/urn, that may work!

Jim L.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I dont know how others do it but if I store syrup for bottling later I store it about one point under. I reheat in the finishing pan and bring to the right density and filter into the bottler. That way I only use the bottler to maintain the heat during the bottling prosses. I think that if you reheat syrup with the intention of not bringing it to a boil to avoid niter cant some of those fryer elements actualy cause boiling of very small amounts of syrup just around the element. When the element gets to temp you can hear the rumbling and small hissing sounds that is boiling sap?

[maplehound]

When I bottle with my coffe pot I always heat the syrup on the stove or in my pan that I keep the syrup hot in before I filter it. Then once the syrup is at the temp that I want it I pour it into my coffe pot and plug it in. I just use the heating element for maintaing the syrup temp not for getting it to the temp I want it at.

[Dennis H.]

Maplehound you heat it up on a stove and then pour into coffee urn to keep warm.
So you have no trouble with the coffee urn maintaining the proper temp for hot packing?

Heres another question, does aluminum really cause any problems with the syrup when you are heating it up to hot pack. The turkey Frier/Steamer that was mentioned a few post ago has an aluminum inner pot that the syrup would be in, also there are a slew of coffee urns out there that are aluminum.

[maplehound]

I have had no problem with the aluminum pot. In fact I am not even sure that mine is aluminum it may be stainless. I have had what some have said on here about the eleament over heating up a small amount in it but only when I am low and at that point I either add more syrup or turn the element off and finish the last with out it.

[RickinFarmington]

The coffee urn I am using holds 2.5 gallons and is made by Farberware out of Yonkers NY.
I like the sugestion of bring the syrup up to temps on the stove then dumping it into the Urn to maintain temp while bottling. Will be my first time, so we will sure find out next month.

Rick

[Dennis H.]

Thanks Rick for the info on your "Canner/Bottler"

[Haynes Forest Products]

NH Maple Maker: I put add on Craigs list under wanted on friday for comercial coffee maker and on saturday got a call. Went to a old warehouse/storage/junk yard and spent about hour with a flashlight walking over and under every concevable peice of old dirty resturant equipment and found about every kind of coffee maker all broken and dented.

Out of the sky came this beam of light that shimmerd off the tell tale signs of SS under shrink wrap up on a shelve coverd in pidgeon crap was the "HOLY GRAIL" of bottlers. Missing one cover and a valve (i have 2) and the bleeder of the top of one site tube. One small ding.

I offerd him $100.00 he counterd with $120.00 I told him I had others to look at and he took the 100 Im going to sleep like a baby tonight.

[NH Maplemaker]

Haynes, Good for you! That was a great find, really nice price as well!! Is it Gas or electric? I wonder how many of these old coffee urns are out there some were sitting on a self or in a dark corner just waiting for some maple producer to come along and find them and put them to use.

Jim L.

[Haynes Forest Products]

NH M: Its elec talked to the manf. and they said its 220 volt and thats fine. Its missing a lid and a replacement is $181.00 I dont need on with holes and fancy handle so will go to resturant supply the get pot lids cheap. this one is only 5 years old and I asked how much the new ones are...........$7000.00
Did you disconect the water spray? I can see myself hitting the button and diluting the syrup. On your unit you have vent tubes back into the tank what do they do. Do you use the filter baskets? I should sell them on Ebay maybe get $1500.00 for both LOL. The guy said that each tank holds 10 gallons.

[Haynes Forest Products]

NHMaple: Well I wired up the mothers of all coffee makers and filled it with water and filled the tanks 1/2 full of water. Within 2 hrs all the water in the heat jacket and the water in the tanks was up to 200 degrees.
Now for the 64,000 $ question.....heating syrup on a gas bottler is actualy heating a thin layer of liquid on the bottom of the tank HIGHER than the boiling point and can cause niter to form. With that said heating Finished syrup up to 200 degrees with a water jacketed/doubble boiler will it cause the niter to form.
I can control the temp I just like bottling it when its HOT HOT HOT

[NH Maplemaker]

Haynes, Sorry ! I didn't see your post back on the 26 !! I don't use the auto fill on my urn. I fill it by hand each day when I start. With this new one I may just leave it on the night setting and not haft to empty it every night! I don't use the baskets. I go from filter press right into the caner and then jug when at proper temp. If I'm bulking I go from evaporator to caner,keep it at temp until I can filter and fill one or more 5 gal stainless container.
I think the vent tubes just vent back into the water jacket. Really can't see what else they do!!
As far as 200 degree syrup from water jacketed urn making niter. That is a good question! I would like to know the answer to it! But my guess is that 200 degrees is 200 degrees no matter how you get to it! My urn shuts off at 204 and comes back on at 200 and I can't adjust it lower.
Are you going to hook yours up to running water ? If not you may want to take the side cover off and unhook the pump and plug the holes with brass plugs. as syrup will get in the pipe and will not get cleaned out when you clean the urn and after awhile will get rancid ! I unhook and capped mine! The pump had ice in it when I took it apart.

Jim L.

[markct]

someone had mentioned product liability insurance in an earlier post in this thread, im not too concerned about it right now cause most of my syrup is to folks i know, but i gota wonder has anyone ever actualy been sued over there syrup? i have never heard of it happening but im sure it has.

[Haynes Forest Products]

NHM: This urn has a air pump to agitate the liquid in the tanks. This one the pump takes the water from the water jacket and pumps it into the swing arm to pump water over the filter backets. The pump doesnt come in contact with any part of the tanks other than spraying water into them. I plan on hooking it up to water and using the hot water to wash the unit down. This one looks like you can adjust it from night time hold all the way up to 200+ so we will see how it works. I like to bottle everything at once so I dont think ill be leaving anything in it overnight. I will brobly hook the press to it and suck the syrup back into the finisher for the next batch.

[NH Maplemaker]

Haynes, I don't leave product in the caner all night either ! What I met to say was, I may leave the water jacket full over night on the night setting. That way when I start the next day I will not haft to refill it and Waite for it to get! up to temp!
After thinking about it, you are right! syrup can't get into the water pump as mine is like yours. But if someone was to press the fill button as you say it would put water back in the pump and freeze up later! I don't keep the sugar house heated.
What brand is yours? The one I have is a American Standard.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Its a Grindmaster made buy American Metal Ware. I was thinking of making a lock on the swing arm to keep it in the center position so it cant fill the tanks during bottling. I dont know if I should strip all the unwanted controls out of the unit.

[NH Maplemaker]

Haynes, this after noon I checked the tag on my caner and it is made by the same folks that made yours ! I took the draw off valve apart and took out the rubber stoppers, They were all black and coffee stained ! I was afraid they would taint the taste of the syrup! So Ordered new one's and they were here in one day. I have a catalogue with every part that you will ever need in it ! I Will gladly send you a CD copy it If you want !! Just Pm me were to send it.

Jim L.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I took the valves apart also This thing must have been well cleaned before I got it. I cant see or smell coffee anyware in or on it. I did find site glass for it if you need any call a good furnace/boiler supply they have it cheap $13.00 for 24" peice. Thanks for the info.