drawing off?

[Sugar Sue]

I need to know... if you are finishing off of your syrup pan how do you know how much to draw off at one time?

Also I don't have a float and was just planning on regulating the flow with a valve, Should I be filling my pans at the same rate I am drawing off?

What does everyone use to bottle their syrup? If I am only doing about 75 taps How much storage for my syrup will I need? What is the easist for family and friends and still be economical for me?

[dano2840]

if you have a 2x6 leader there should be a little hole (probably is capped with a threaded plug) near your draw off, this is for a dial thermometer that will tell you when your 7 degrees above the boiling point of water, when it gets there you take a hydrometer and test your syrup to see if it is the correct density then you keep drawing off when your thermometer goes below 7 above boiling point of water or your hydrometer tells you the syrup isnt dence enough,
the dial thermometer costs about 55$ and the hydrometer is 30$??? i dont remember the cost of a hydrometer, but it shouldnt be much more, ,
Its always good to have 2 gal of storage per tap, you can get away with one depending on how quick your going to boil it (if your doing it after work you will want 2 gal per tap) so a 150 gal tank would work, or a 100 gal stock tank and 2 (new) trash cans, if you are running pipe and it is coming right into the feed tank of your evap, you will only need one but if you are running buckets a trash can tied to a sled works as a nice gathering rig if your taps are in the woods and you dont have any thing to haul it, (tractor, 4wheeler, truck,etc)

[3% Solution]

Hi Sugar Sue,
Welcome to this wonderful relm of sick people!!
How much to draw off, when we draw off we just watch the thermometer, when it drops two degrees, we stop.
We also check before we run it through the filters to make sure we have syrup. Check the temperature and the hydrometer, you'll need a chart for this.
We continously flow sap into our pan, the rate as it is boiling off, we run 1 1/4 to 1 1/2" in the pan at all times. As we draw we will push a little extra sap into the pan so to bring the level back up in the syrup pan.
We put our syrup up in plastic containers that are sold at any sugaring supply outfit.
Do you have any Mason jars?
You will need no doubt 20 gallons worth of containers.
You know your own financial situation, what ever.
Just remember this is what we do, you have to get to know your own evaporator and what's good for you.

Dave

[Sugar Sue]

If we are collecting buckets and dumping them into some tank... is there any easy way of getting the sap up and into the shack? There is a window over it.
Susan

[3% Solution]

How about a small pump?

[NH Maplemaker]

Sugar Sue, As some one just getting started I would recommend that you buy a copy of the North American Maple Syrup Producers Manual ! Not we are not happy to answer your questions. But in the heat of boiling (no pun) if something come up you are not going to have time ask ! This book has every thing you will ever need to know about maple sugaring .A large numbers of members here including myself own this great book!! I can't remember what I payed for it. But worth every Pennie ! Jim L.


PS Welcome to the site !!

[Clan Delaney]

I just checked... you can order one through Mass Maple (http://www.massmaple.org/manual.html). They've got it listed for $30, plus $4 shipping

[Dave Y]

Sue,
If you have the 0-7 thermometer on your pan you will need to calibrate it with boiling water. 0 is the point of boiling water 7 is syrup. Once you get on to this type of thermometer you will like it. you also should have a hydrometer to check your density against the thermometer. also remember syrup is 7 degs above the point of boiling water that day. It is not 212. it constantly changes. I have had it boil at 208. good luck and welcome

[PATheron]

What we do with ours to draw off is this. We have a thermometer on the syrup pan and basically just out of laziness I never pay any attention to water boiling points and calibrate it and all that. All I do is check my first draw with the hyrometer and make sure its right to syrup and then look at my thermometer on the syrup pan and that temp is syrup for the night. Then when I draw usually I go a couple degrees high as its drawing and let it go a couple degrees low before I stop and split the difference. Works good for us but I also double check the density with the hydrometer just before I filter it too so just something to think about. Could work for you. The hydrometer is real easy and you dont really have to know much just have the syrup float it to the hot test red mark and your golden. Theron

[danno]

If we are collecting buckets and dumping them into some tank... is there any easy way of getting the sap up and into the shack? There is a window over it.
Susan

Hi SS - we put a smaller holding tank above our evaporator and simply gravity feed the sap from the tank into the evaporator. If you have electric, I think the easiest and cheapest way to move your sap from outiside to your feed tank is with an inexpensive sump pump from Loews or Home Depot.

[ennismaple]

The bubbles normally give it away. Large bubbles = syrup, small bubbles = close the valve! Even though we use an automatic runoff we still go by what the bubbles look like and how the syrup sheets off the ladle. They will tell us the temp to draw off at has changed before we notice it with the refractometer.

[NH Maplemaker]

Theron,when I read your post,I thought that I wrote it! That is the same way that I draw off! I don't set boiling point and after the first correct draw with the hydrometer I just use that temp. After a few years you can tell by the look of the Pan and know it's close to syrup. Jim L.

[Russell Lampron]

With smaller evaporators the syrup comes in batches and once you know where syrup is on your thermometer you do just as others have said. Adjust the thermometer with an Allen wrench to 7 when you are reading syrup with a hydrometer. The Hydrometer is the must have tool to know when you have syrup. Start drawing off at temp and watch it as the temp will climb a couple of degrees and come back down. Go 2 degrees lower and shut the valve.

Start with a level of about 1.5" to 2" in your front pan so that you don't run it too low and burn the pan. After you are comfortable with it you can run the front pan a little shallower to speed things up.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I set my thermometer 6 years ago when I boiled the first time on the evaporator and haven't touched them since. They are 0 to 50 thermometers and I have one on each side. They are pretty close and provide an accurate drawoff guide and unless you are finishing off the evaporator, I don't see much need for worry too much about if they are perfect that paticular day. I draw off heavy and usually only bottle 2 or 3 times total during the season, so I will likely bottle 30 to 40 gallons at one bottling session.

[Sugar Sue]

I have the manual. Purchased it right from OSU. Only paid $21 and that included shipping. My evaporator has reverse flow. When do I switch the flow? Is there any special procedure for this? Also, do you boil through the night or do you restart everyday? How do you shut down? I know that I have read some of this in "THE MANUAL" but I am wondering what everyone else does?

[dano2840]

your evap should should have come with a manual telling you how to reverse the flow( there are a few different types of rev. flows i wouldnt know which one it was unless i saw a pic of your evap)
but you should switch sides every time you boil, when you have about 20 gal of sap left stop puting wood to the evap, as you dont want to run out of sap and burn your pans, if worse comes to worse and you do run out of sap take a shovel full of snow or a bucket of water and put the fire out or put the snow/ water in the back pan. you dont start out with a fresh batch every day (unless you have flat pans but if you have rev. flow pans it sounds like you have a normal set of pans so you dont have to worry about that) but you leave the sap in the flue pan and the syrup thats close in the syrup pan, then the next day when you have sap you start the rig up and go

[brookledge]

I only reverse flow when it needs to be reversed. There is no specific guideline as to how much syrup or how many hours of boiling etc. befrore switch the flow.
The key thing is to watch the pans and the nitre build up. Some years it can be terible and the next year no so bad. In my case I may go two days of boiling time or it could be 4 hours. If you get too much nitre the syrup can burn between the pan and the nitre.
As for reversing the flow each manufatuer or type is different so we could help you with that by telling what type of pans you have

Keith

[peacemaker]

sue i use a 12 volt pump fron tsc or a small pond pump will work ...and u will need a head tank to pump up to

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

SUE

i normally switch sides everyday, towards the end of the season i have had to switch sides every 4 hours. when the niter starts to build up you will see it.

RICH

[Haynes Forest Products]

Sue I dont reverse my pans I just clean them. Just because you have reverse flow pans doesent meen you can just reverse the flow. On most pans to reverse the flow you need to turn the finish pans around change the float box on the flue pan swing the inlet hose from the feed tank and if you have a raised flue pan you might have a float box between the flue and finish pan so its not as easy as it sounds. Plus you still have dirty finish pans. I can clean my final finish pan at the end of the day by draining it and letting it soak with cleaner in it overnight. For me to drain and soak and switch my pans takes less than 1/2 hr to drain all my pans soak and reverse my pans and controls would be 2 hrs and I would be drawing off on the side too cramped to sit and drink beer from.

[Maplewalnut]

Sue, Nitre or sugar sand is just that. You'll notice after a few boils that there will be some hard caked on sediment at the bottom of the front pan. It is almost gritty. The concept of reverse flow is to try and even out that sediment in between cleanings. The more sediment you get caked on any particular side the harder it is to clean off later.

We also draw off a little high and stop a little low. It all works out and reduces the number of times you are opening and closing the valve. Mason jars a pretty easy to fill up and cap plus there usuable year in and out for a small operation.

[royalmaple]

I have reverse flow pans and never change the flow. I have yet to see them actually get "cleaned" by reversing the flow. I just set up the floats so I am drawing off on the cumfie side of the evap. I have a nice countertop on one side to hold my captain and it's right beside the filter press so it all flows better.

I just drain my front pan down, and wash it. With a 2x6 those pans are easy enough to disconnect and wash. You can leave it right in place and wash and rinse on the rig, then put your concentrate back into the front pan and your rolling again.

You'll have to figure out how much sap you can get away with at the end of the night. It might be 10 - 20 gallons that you need when you stop. Set up a sight tube on your feed tank and mark the "stop" level on the tube. Then when you are boiling and you get to the magic level stop putting wood to the fire open the doors and let it cool off and let the sap enter the evaporator. I don't flood my evaporator just let that amount in the head tank flow into the evaporator naturally and leave it.

I can anticipate when I need to shut down and I stop with about 20 gallons in my feed tank at the end of the night. My rig is cooling down when I am cleaning up things from the boiling session, and before I turn off the lights I check everything to make sure it's all set and start up the next time.

[3% Solution]

Hey Sugar Sue,
We stop at the end the same as Matt.
The first couple of times are the trickiest, you've got to figure out where you are!!!
We began stopping (now that's interesting!!) at about 20 gallons and worked it down to about 10 gallons, which gives me plenty of sap to work with as the fire burns out and things are cooling off.
On my site tube it's marked "Last Fire", so that's just what I do, fire one more time, that's it one more time!!!!
This works out good for us.
With the EEU I can last fire when the sap is all gone, because I have sap in the EEU, but I don't like to do that, still us the "Last Fire!"
You'll just have to play around with it to see what's good for you.
It won't take long and you'll be comfortable with it.
Just remember, for that thing to be efficient you need to hum it right along, bring it up to max and keep it there. You'll learn in short order how to do this.
Hope this helps!!

Dave

[Brian Ryther]

I tried getting away with not reversing flow in my pans and or cleaning. I ended up with a thick layer of niter that killed my evaporation rate and bubbled the sodder. As soon as I reversed flow the incoming sap disolved the niter and the evaporation jumped back to where it should have been. So now when I go through startup I Light the fire, swtich the flue feed pipe. I need to do this within 10 minuites or I can not get my hands in the sap to pull the pipe. Then I need to switch the filterpress, auto draw, barrel, drawoff tank to the other side. A pain in the butt, but better then scorched pans.

[maple flats]

Welcome sue. Glad you came. Mine is a 3x8 and I also have a site tube on my feed line from the feed tank and the evaporator. After experimenting I finally ended up with my last fueling at 13 gal of sap in the tank. I then shut the air off about 10-15 minutes later while I am finishing up other chores and getting ready to go home. Just before I leave I remove the float and let the little remaining sap into the evap which is almost at a boil still. This heats the sap enough to kill any bacteria trying to have a meal on my sugar in the pans. I cover the pans (a hood always covers the flue pan, I made a piece of clean sheet metal to cover the syrup pan, and one to cover each of the 3 float boxes, one for flue pan and one for each side of the syrup pan, mine is not reversable, i switch sides every day.) Then i close the cupola doors, lock up and shut off the generator as I leave for the nite.

[michiganfarmer]

I watch the temp. As it gets close, I starch checking it with the hydrometer. As Im drawing off, I check it with a hydrometer constantly untill the draw is over. I draw off untill the red line just barely sinks below the syrup.

[bobsklarz]

Do you just put the sump pump in the plastic tank? I collect in a 65 gal poly tank but have to get it into a tank above. A sump sounds like an excellent idea. I wonder if I could just let it drain into 5 gal bucket w/ sump in bucket with line going into higher tank? bob sklarz

[parsissn]

You can use a bucket to feed your pump but you have to make sure the flow coming out of your poly tank is equal or greater than your pump otherwise your pump will keep running dry and that's not good for the pump. Most small / medium sized poly tanks have the same size cap. I bought a utility pump at TSC and it just fits down inside the opening on my 65 gal poly collection tank and my 425 storage poly tank. I use that one pump to move all my sap and it does a good job. It also connects to garden hoses (I use clean / new ones) so it's a low cost piping system to move sap around my operation.

A local commercial producer keeps all his sap in 500 - 1000 gal stock tanks and uses a pedistal type sump pump to move sap from his collection tank up to the holding tank rack. He then uses the same pump to move it from the holing tanks to the one tank plumbed to feed the evaporator. Works well and just like many others are doing on here - just on a different scale.

[Haynes Forest Products]

If you dont have power at the sap shack you can use a 12 volt marine bilge pump. That is what I used for collecting in the woods into the sap hauler. It was all I had at the time worked well. I took the pump with hose mounted it on a pole with the power cord taped to the discharge hose I put a switch on the end of the pole so I could turn it on when I stuck it in the tank.

[bobsklarz]

Thanks so much for the info on pumps. Now time to shop.

[maple marc]

A tip on the hose: get a good RV drinking water hose to hook up to your sump pump. A garden hose has lead, and may give you an off-flavor. Get the kink-free RV hose (white). The el-cheapo brand will kink really badly in cold temperatures (I learned the hard way).

Have fun and good luck!