Pumping your sap

[mapleman3]

Seeing that this is the big expansion year for me, I need to buy a gas powered transfer pump....OR use my generator(big) with a good electric pump... I hate to have the weight of the generator along with the sap weight in the sap trailer.... so are the 3.5 + hp pumps that either tractor supply or Northern sufficient? 150gpm sounds good if I'm not pumping uphill or adding head to it.... Also wondering what you guys think of 4stroke vs 2 cycle for the reliability factor!

I never had to get sap out of tanks before, I'm kinda worried about frozen valves... with these pumps "pick up" from the bottom of a tank???

[caseyssugarshack93]

I was thinking about getting a honda 4stoke pump hear there good but this year im using a honda genatrator with a wayne 3000gph sub pump i used a small one last year an worked for me cheap way to get out of it for me anyways prob gunna get a pacer pump there fast next year ...

just my two cents


nate

[dano2840]

mapleman-
i have a 3.5hp farm pump (its a pacer) and i used it last year to pump sap up hill, i pumped sap about a thousand feet and with 60-70 feet of elevation to climb and it pumped about 250gph even though its rated at like 3 or 4000gph.,A 3.5 will do you just fine, as for a it being a 150 gph? ive never seen one with that low of out put. a 3.5 should put out at least 2000 gph. but it will work fine, as far as sucking it out of the tank it will suck out every thing but about a 1/2 to 3/4" of sap, the valves shouldnt freeze if your worried about that go with brass valves so that way if they do you can just take the tourch to them

[TapME]

mapleman, how many gallons in the tank is the question. So it take 2 extra minutes to empty the tank, its better than a bucket. We will have 300 of them (buckets) this year. I will watch this thread and see whats everyone uses.

[Russell Lampron]

I use a Honda WX10 1" pump. I just stick the suction hose into the tank and suck it out like that. No valve freeze up problem and I can move the hose around in the bottom of the tank to suck out the crap. Once it is primed it will move a lot of sap in a small amount of time. The WX10 is small so a 3.5hp should do even better.

[Bucket Head]

Jim,

I don't know how many gallons of sap were talking about, or what size tank's, but here's my two cent's.

The 150 gal. pumps will certainly move sap. However, they are heavier than the smaller pumps that are offered, and the hoses are harder to manage. Those stiff green discharge hoses have a mind of their own, and their worse when their cold.

My father and I use a two stroke and a four stroke 1" inlet/outlet pumps. They pump 35-37 gpm. The four stroke is a little easier on the ears.

No, they don't pump as much as the bigger pumps, but each one will empty out a 55 gal. drum in under two minutes. We have a 275 gal. tank on the pick-up. I never timed them unloading that, but its not long.

We find that the lightness of the pumps/hoses and ease of hooking them up is worth a little "wait time". Its easier on the backs too.

Another thing to consider would be who is going to be doing the pumping. Are the young "sap haulers" going to be working with this equipment? What about the Mrs.? Slightly smaller pumping equipment would probably be appreciated by the smaller members of the family.

I could bring pictures of our set-up to VVS this weekend if you wanted to see it.

Tell us what pump you end up getting and let us know how it works.

Steve

[Bucket Head]

Jim,

I should add that we have plastic-cable wire ties holding the suction hose to a piece of PVC pipe that we stick into the tank and barrels.

I have installed check valves at the ends of the suction lines also. This allows us to prime the pumps by holding the plunger in the valve down, and then with a small plastic piture we pour sap into the hose/pump. The check valve holds the prime until you get it in the sap, and for us, it holds the prime until the next barrel. We prime once per collection run.

The discharge hoses that we use came from Grainger.

Our set-up is very user friendly, but I know we do not pump as many gallons as some folks do. Everyone has to decide for themselves what will work the best.

Steve

[Jim Brown]

Mapleman3; we have a small 2cycle 1hp pump that will pump over 35 gpm through a 3/4 hose. we bought it on the internet (www.generatordepot.us/) The whole thing is made in china and weights about 5 lbs.The 2 cycle is no longer availble but the 4 cycle is a nice pump as we bought one for a friend of ours and it works great $209.00 delivered to your door.
We have used ours for three years now with no problems and she has moved a ton of sap!

Jim

[Dave Y]

Mapleman,
I use the1.5hp Mitsubishi pump that TSC sells. they work very well as I have two of them.I cant remember what they are rated at,but I can empty my 550 in about 15 minutes. Very light weight and dependable. I handled 21,000 gal of sap with the one last year.

[dano2840]

ohh a 150 gpm not gph my bad hehe lol
just kidding i tricked you

[mapleman3]

Dave I was looking at that with the mitsubishi... thats about what I want.... I'll have a couple 300 gal tanks to do... not that they will get full but never know... that bush is 423 taps split to 2 tanks(2 pickup points) I can get right up to the tanks... then back at the sugarhouse will need to transfer. So I will look at that pump Actually I think the Mitsubishi 1" was in Northern Tool for 229.00 thats more like my price!!!!

Jim I'm going to look up that link you have and see what they have.


Steve... Yeah I want ease of mobility.. so no big hoses!! just in case Mrs. Mapleman and the saplings need to do it.
I would love to see pictures!! I will be wearing a green Tshirt, green carhart and tan hat, all with our Maple leaf logo.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jim,

The 1" pumps are plenty for what you need. I have 2 Tanaka 1" pumps and they will either empty a tank really fast especially if you are not pumping uphil. They are both compact and lightweight and start right up. You can pick up other brands like the Mitsubishi you mentioned and some of the others mentioned for cheaper than a Tanaka. Nothing against Jim, but I don't want a Chinese pump, but would rather spend a little more money on something better. Ebay is a good place to buy one also.

[mapleman3]

Mitsubishi made in china or Japan??? heck I don't know but I like them

[Bucket Head]

Jim,

I'll be looking for you at the show.

Steve

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jim,

I was referring to the post by Jim Brown where he was using a China pump.

[brookledge]

Jim
The first thing you should do is determine how much time you want to spend filling up from your tank.
I would not recommend the larger pacer pump unless you are going to be pumping more than 500 gal at a time. THey are good pumps but a little bulky.
I have a WX15 honda 4 stroke. I used to have a 1.5" Tanaka 2 stroke.
The 4 stroke uses alot less gas and doesn't smell like a 2 stroke does.
For me the WX10 like Russ has is too small. I definately like the Honda engine though. It has been very reliable.
Keith

[Dave Y]

Mapleman,
the TSC pump is made in Japan. It has been a reliable pump for me. It is easy to haul and pumps fairly quickly. I would recomend this pump to any one for transfering sap.

[few trees]

If you go to govliquidation.com they currently have an auction going on for new 4 cylinder gasoline engines. the prices vary between 160-180 right now. The auction closes at 5 pm today. They say the engines are 6 hp.

[Russell Lampron]

I may find that my WX10 is too small and have to get a bigger one. I am going to be pumping sap 1400 feet up a 50 foot elevation change this year to get the sap to the sugarhouse.

[ennismaple]

Our Honda WX20 (2") easily self primes in a few seconds and is very light. It's lighter that each of the generator and transfer pump that it replaced plus it's waaaay faster. A 1.5" or even 1" would probably be more than sufficient for your needs.

[Jim Brown]

few trees; If you go to www.saturnsurplus.com they are the ones buying up all the gov surplus engines. They have the ones you are looking at on the gov site. We bought a recip pump on the web site and when we contacted saturn for a new carb for the engine they admitted to bidding against us.
Their price are not that bad for gov stuff,only set back is the engines, though they are new were made in the 60's and 70s

Jim

[mapleman3]

Brookledge or Russ..... If yours is too small and you need to upgrade :) I'm your buyer for the WX10...... whatta ya think???

[Russell Lampron]

Jim if my pump works as good as I think it will I won't be upgrading. I have used it in the past to wash my tubing and it has pumped alot of water long distances uphill without a problem. If I have to upgrade though I will let you know.

[brookledge]

Jim
I already have the WX15 and it is great for me.
Keith

[mapleman3]

Thanks , I just bought a honda 1.5hp 1" on ebay... New for 229. free shipping, I compared it to the others and I think it will work fine for me.....

Now I can't wait to get it and play with it ;)

[brookledge]

So it sounds like you will be pumping water pretending it is sap the day it arives.
Keith

[caseyssugarshack93]

Good choice of a pump jim! im thinking about getting one like that. im gunna use a sub pump for now cheap way out of it for me.

[tappin&sappin]

Hi all, first post of the season...

Yesterday my 1 inch 1742 gph mitsibishi pump (item # 10632) arrrived from Northern Tool.

I also purchased the following:
1. 1 inch discharge hose - item # 507511
2. 1 inch suction hose - item # 507510
3. Brass foot valve - item # 10823

After reading the owners manual, I have the following questions:
1. I assume the brass foot valve goes on the end of the suction hose, and I believe it's purpose is to keep sap from draining back out the hose. Seems to be part strainer/part check valve. Is this correct?

2. If my guess related to question 1 is true... Is this valves purpose to keep the pump primed as I move from one tank to the other? I've got roadsides on tubing w/ 50 gallon drums.

3. Related to question 2, am I going to need to shut down the pump after each drum is emptied so the pump doesn't run dry, or will the foot valve allow me to keep the pump running the entire time I'm out gathering?

I imagine these questions are obvious to some people, but I've got no experience with this type of pump.

Thanks!

[Sugarmaker]

Jake,
Welcome back. Yea that guy in Indiana got your juices flowing! I knew it:)
I would think you would have to shut the pump off between moves to each tank. Not sure since I don't have a big pump like this. Sounds like it should do the job for you once you get the system down.
I put a check valve in pine at the sap tank end just so I would not lose the sap in the hose while I move to the next pick up point. Not sure how well these units like you have pick up and prime But you might be able to use the sap int the pick up hose to prime it. Or maybe it will prime itself easily with a little sap in the hose. A lot of folks have these so should work good and pump sap fast!

By the way can I come over this year to get some tips on making BEST of SHOW syrup:)

See you Saturday?

Chris

[Bucket Head]

Tappin' & Sappin',

Yes on all of the above, except running the pump continuously.

You need to shut the pump off inbetween barrels. The pump is strong enough that when the suction line is out of the sap, it will suck open the check valve and suck air. Then you will have to re-prime.

Also, inorder to keep the prime, you need to shut the pump off right before it completely emtys the barrel. It will suck air there too and lose prime.

When the barrel has four inches or so left in it, tilt the barrel slightly so the sap goes to one side. Keep the end of the hose submerged, and you will get most of it out, only leaving a slight amount behind when you shut off the pump.

If you pump the barrel out completly and lose prime, don't worry. By using the check valve, we bring a small plastic pitcher with us and by pushing the check valve down with a finger, we pour sap back into the suction hose to re-prime. We do not "monkey around" with the way-too-small plastic priming plug in the pumps.

Oh yeah, you might want to return the foot valve. It has a screen on it, right? That will prevent you from primeing and re-priming with your finger and pitcher. A plain check valve has no screen.

Good luck with it!

Steve

[tappin&sappin]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Chris,

As you know... that 12V pump I got last yr just wasn't cutting it. So I decided to go this route. Pricey, but hopefully it will be worth it.

Your welcome over anytime, but I'm not sure what tips to give you... I've learned many of my 'tactics' from you. :)

Yes, I will be there on Saturday. I guess I'm doing registration.

Steve,

Thanks for the info. Yeah, the foot valve has a screen on it. I may return it and try your method of re-priming if necessary or I might try re-priming at the pump. The manual said something about running a small line off of the pump for air to escape, but I'm not sure what they were talking about. The manual lacks in detail, a few illustrations would help make things much more clear.

The only potential problem I can foresee is that I have a 25 foot suction hose which means I'll probably not have the pump sitting beside the collection tank. May make for a quick dash to the pump in order to shut it down before it loses prime. Maybe a remote kill switch is in order...

[Father & Son]

Jake,

I have been using a Tanaka pump similar to yours that I got off e-bay for 2 years now with no complaints or problems. Priming is no big deal, only takes about a quart of sap and the pump does the rest. It depends on how you have it rigged up as to where the pump will sit ( beside drums or truck ). Will talk to you more on Saturday.

Jim