how tight for tie wires on mainline?

[markct]

well i put up about 600ft of half inch mainline last weekend, tightened the tie wires so they were just a little loose so the wire and tube could expand and contract as leader says and others on this board mention, go out yesterday to start adding lines off it and fine many of my wire ties have slid downhill and bunched together! what did i do wrong, i slid them back apart and snugged them a little more but i hope that doesnt cause more problems.

[3% Solution]

markct,
Ahhhh, how do I say this nicely?
You didn't tighten the ties enough.
You don't want them loose, so they slid, but you don't want them so tight they crush or cut the mainline.
Hey, we all have to learn, that's what life is about!!

[Dave Y]

Most wire ties will break before the they will cut any mainline. I tighten mine fairly snug and have had no problems.

[3% Solution]

Dave Y,
Good point!!:)

[Jim Brown]

I twist mine fairly tight also and no problems!.DaveY is right it will break before you can hurt anything.

Jim

[maple flats]

I have tightened mine with no cutting problems in the past too. However after going to a Leader seminar I am leaving them enough room to let the tubing expand without getting a wigglie snake. I have had problems with that in the past. I hope mine are tight enough to stay in place without sliding down the mainline. So far I have not noticed any sliding but most of my new mainline is only about 10 days or less old. I will check them on Tuesday to see because Monday I am going to pick up some 5/16 tubing to start my laterals. If necessary I will tighten some more.

[Parker]

I like to put up my mainline wire and get it snug,I like a racthet on each end of my mainline wire, then run my 3/4 or 1" out, I like to have a ratchet and chineese finger trap on both ends of the tubing, then tighten the tubing up till it about the same tension as the wire,,let it sit like that for a day or 2-then go back and get the wire tighter (not too tight) and the tubing a macthing tightness,,then wire tie the tubing,,like DaveY said, make the ties tight,,I then run side pull wires till the mainline is darn tight,,then run my laterals witch tighten the mainline banjo string tight,,,not all my mains are like this but the one that are can never snake,, and if a tree goes down across it a few side pull wires will break-the main will be pinned under the tree but you wont loose the anchrs in the tree or break the mainline wire,,cut the tree off and put up some new side pull wires and your back in business,,,more expensive but works for me,,,

[Russell Lampron]

I do it like Parker does. $8 worth of ratchets, $8 worth of anchor hooks and $25 worth of tension grips. Saves a lot of headaches and lost sap.

[Maplewalnut]

I've been playing with alot of mainline the last few months and Parker and Russ have it right. I didn't use tension grips at the ends but did use hose clamps which keep the mainline snug end to end. Also very important to wire tie your main to the wire every 18", any more than that and it will start to snake on you also.

[dano2840]

i tighten my wire before i put my line on it, i tighten it so tight that the whire hardly bounces up and down when u twang it with your finger. then i wire tie the pipe on as tight as the ties go before they break so the line wont move on the wire. it has worked very well for me, and im satisfied with my system of doing it
my 2 cents
its not much but its an answer

[ennismaple]

I'm the same as DanO - I crank em as tight as I can without them breaking.

[peacemaker]

if u cant play dixie on that wire it aint tight enough and as as well say as tight as uu can without snapping them but if you are using the blue main be careful u dont over tighten and dent the tube

[Parker]

I personally dont like to ratchett my mainline wire too tight,,I leave that final tightening to the side pull wire (which is much weaker than the mainline wire-I use elec. fence wire for side pull) that way if a tree goes across my main the side pull wires break relaxing tension on the mainline,,not breaking the mainline or pulling out the anchors (which is an absolute nightmare to fix)

[maple flats]

I do like Parker for mainline wire (this year but not previously). It sounded like the better approach. For mainline tube I might need to tighten ties more, now they are rather loose. The mainline tubing is pulled tight with a chineese finger pull on each end but not pulled as tight as the wire and the downhill pull is weaker so it can give if needed, the uphill is quite sturdy.

[markct]

thanks for the responses i went back and snugged them all a bit more, about as tight as i woulda made them if i just guessed and didnt hear this great advice from leader about leaving them loose enough for the tube to move so now they are all staying in place as best i can tell, well today they are encased in a half inch of ice which is keeping them i place very well! but they dont appear to have moved any since saturday when i snugged them

[Sugarmaker]

I know you guys are in to twist ties and I don't do main line tubing but I do pay attention sometimes and a local dealer during a tubing seminar used the Canadian style of wrapping the main line and support wire with sst wire along the length. Claims this is quicker and holds just as well too? Any one try that system?

Chris

[treefinder]

i tightened mine down as tight as i could get them ,and all my line looked like an accordian . leader says to just snug them. i had to start at the top and work my way to the tank pulling it all. this year i got the tension grips so it wont bother again.

[caseyssugarshack93]

I put mine on just tight anough so they stay still.

just my two cents

[Parker]

I think If you want you line not to snake you have to have tension grips on each end-then the ties hold the tubing aginst the wire-the grips prevent movement-and snaking,,,just my thought,,I know where I tried to skip useing a grip and rachett the lines eventualy snaked,,,,
I have never used or seen used the wrap (like on powerlines?) but i would worry if it broke anywhere along the mainline the whole thing would unwhinde?

[maplwrks]

I have seen this wrap done with both lashing wire and synthetic baler rope. It goes up extremely fast and is very neat. I may do this on my next new installation.

[Dave Y]

To Keep your main line from looking like an acordian, I agree with Parker. I have not used the tension grips though. What I have done is fasten a hose clamp to the end of it. When I am putting up Mainline this is the way I do it. I run my support wire the length of the mainline. I then tighten it as tight as possible, then go back and side tie it. When I am done you can play tune with a fiddle bow. Then I roll out my mainline along the course of the wire.I will fasten the pipe to the wire with a hose clamp. I will the attach a come along to the mainline(a ratchet strap will work) at 100 ft intervails,more or less depending where the side tie wire is. Then I will tighten the pipe with the come along.Then I go back and wire tie every 3 ft. this will stretch the pipe striaght. I do it this way till I come to the end. I then put another hose clamp on the pipe. I tie every foot after my saddles are installed. I have tied it before installing the saddles but found it difficult to install saddles if it is tied off completely. This is a combination of technics I saw at both a Leader & Dominion & Grimm seminars.

[brookledge]

As far as a lashing machine they are expensive to buy. I have watched them in use and it is very fast. Two roles of wire are loaded into the machine and as you pull it not only does it rotate the wire around what you are lasing it winds the wire in oposite directions. One rol of wire goes clockwise and the other counterclockwise. I suppose that every time you come to a lateral manifold you could tie it off and start over. Tieing it off every so often is the only way to prevent it from undinding should the wire be cut.
Keith

[ennismaple]

We did one section of mainline with a lasher a few years ago. It adds a LOT of weight and is a pain to repair the mainline or lashing. We use the stainless ties now.