Forced draft/ blower system

[dano2840]

im going to put a blower on my evap this year, i tested this whole blower thing on my 18"x6' last year with a blower a little bigger than my fist( i have big hands) i didnt have a duct coming out and pointing up at the grate, but it seemed to do just fine blowing into the bottom of the arch, i am wondering though im going to run some thing in the 4x12 range and am going to use a duct blower off a furnace ( i think it was for a 12 or 10 inch square duct, but will i be ok just cutting a hole in the back of the arch and ( the width of the arch of coarse) and letting it blow into the arch? or should i get some tin and make it so it blows straight up at the fire? there is enough volume of air so i think it would blow in the bottom of the arch and bounce of the arch front and to the fire but i dont know
your thoughts????????????????????

[sapman]

DanO,

When I bought a Leader forced draft for my evap, the duct went to the back of a box under the grates, thus pressurizing the whole chamber from below. Worked great. Be aware that you will have much higher temperatures to deal with now. My unit came with new grates that wouldn't warp. I also bought an air-tight front after one year, as the stock one broke in a few places.

Good luck,
Tim

[PATheron]

Sapman-How much difference did it make on the boil rate do you think before the airtight front? The other thing I was wondering is did they basically make a box and drill a bunch of holes in the top and put it in the bottom of the arch and hook a duct to it? Theron

[Haynes Forest Products]

PATheron That evaporator cant be a 3X10? I have a 4 year old Waterloo small 2 finish pan and it has differant side pockets and looks alot smaller. How old is yours?

[dano2840]

thats not a 3x10 thats an oil fired rig looks like 5x14 the 3x10 is on pg 4 of his album

[PATheron]

Sorry about that guys. Thats a big one like you say that Richard Patterson has. Not sure the size but its like a 500 gallon per hour rig. Turbo fuel oil deal. He has two of them. Theron

[dano2840]

it looked like there was another one behind it in one of those pics
how many taps does he have 500gph is alot of sap but 500gph x2? HOLY CRAP!!??

[PATheron]

Dano- Hes got a 6000 gal per hour RO too run high concentrate into them. Now crunch the numbers. I think hes got 70,000 and some taps. Theron

[dano2840]

Dano- Hes got a 6000 gal per hour RO too run high concentrate into them. Now crunch the numbers. I think hes got 70,000 and some taps. Theron
there is a guy in cambridge vt by the name of doug edwards who has 60000 hes got a big out fired rig too cool opperation

[jason grossman]

hey guys, just thought i would let you know i was at an operation in northern quebec last spring, 160,000+ taps. insane! four ro's, 3-6x18's, 2 tanker trucks, 12 pump stations. 60,000gal plus storage at the sugarhouse. they filled three 55gal drums at a time. when they were going full bore a 55gal in five minutes. all on oil and generators. 3 175kw diesel gensets and a 100hp vacuum pump. we were only the second english speaking people to visit them. they could'nt even tap 20,000 becuase they were under 22' of snow!!! crazy something to aspire too!!!!!

[sapman]

Theron,

I went from about 60/hour to 85~/hr at first. With the air-tight front and Steamaway I could get up to 120/hr. My wood was awesome. Reject pallet boards that dried very well.

I can't remember that much about the airbox. I think they sent sheet metal cut to fit to seal things off, and we bolted it in. There was a cut-out in the back that the premade ductwork slid through and fastened to the fan.

Tim

[sapsick]

fellas i'm lookin at putting a blower i acquired into my evap. it is 600 cfm and im gonna run a 6in pipe directly up under my grates from the bottom of my barrel. the blower has a dimmer switch that i will be able to control the speed and my grates are from an old brick furance froma toothpick mill. i dont think they will warp. just wondering if the cfm's are enuf. what do you guys run for cfm?

[WF MASON]

A 600 cfm blower is enough air to work on a 4' wide evaporator, ducting it down to a 6" pipe could cause the motor to over heat though.

[sapsick]

yeah the blower has an 8in inlet and a 10in outlet. my evap is as wide as an vertical oil barrel. i was just afraid of having to much air if i went 10in with my ducting.any idea what the "standard" is?

[dano2840]

hey guys, just thought i would let you know i was at an operation in northern quebec last spring, 160,000+ taps. insane! four ro's, 3-6x18's, 2 tanker trucks, 12 pump stations. 60,000gal plus storage at the sugarhouse. they filled three 55gal drums at a time. when they were going full bore a 55gal in five minutes. all on oil and generators. 3 175kw diesel gensets and a 100hp vacuum pump. we were only the second english speaking people to visit them. they could'nt even tap 20,000 becuase they were under 22' of snow!!! crazy something to aspire too!!!!!

WTF kinda sugaring operation is that thats not asugar house thats a factory, holy crap i bet they produce more syrup in a day when theyre sugaring then the aunt gimima factory!!!

[oneoldsap]

That sounds like Donald Lapierre's operation' that really is something to see. I beleive it's the biggest in the world ! went up there a few years ago with Dave Mayotte . There were 4 or 5 55Gal drums of taps to be put in. They will start tapping the first of Feb. and tap for a month or more.

[dano2840]

That sounds like Donald Lapierre's operation' that really is something to see. I beleive it's the biggest in the world ! went up there a few years ago with Dave Mayotte . There were 4 or 5 55Gal drums of taps to be put in. They will start tapping the first of Feb. and tap for a month or more.

i would stop at 25000 even that is to many i would stop when i had enough to make a good living and be able to support my farmily and buy tractors and weelers and sleds and a snow cat and a dozer and an excavator (all to be used for sugaring OF COARSE!!!)

[jason grossman]

Dano, the operation is 5zef pronunced (sank zyef, french!?!?, five brothers) 2hours north of quebec city. but by far not the largest. i hear of an operation in new brunswick i believe over 1,000,000 taps. I hope to get there this spring. After our season is over we head to quebec to see things, hopefully learn something new. I also hope to visit an install i helped with up there this past summer. the problem with sugarin is when you want to visit people your busy with your own. the more you visit and see the more you can learn.

[WF MASON]

Sapsick, generally something in the 200-300 cfm range for your size would work, I'd try what you have first. If the speed control works you might be fine.

[dano2840]

1,000,000
i think thats a myth, an urban legend
what do they have 10 6x18s w/ steamaways and 50 6000gph ros?
MADNESS
thats insane

[Amber Gold]

When installing a forced draft system (woodsaver or equivalent) with forced draft grates, does the bottom of the fire box portion of the arch (the area below the plenum and draft door) need to be sealed with a sheet of sheet metal and is the draft door opened or closed? I'm guessing the sheet metal's needed to keep the air from going down and the draft door is operated closed. Just wanted to confirm.

Thanks

[RileySugarbush]

Yes. Seal it up so all the flow goes up through the grate. More sophisticated forced air systems will also inject air above the fuel, but the first step is to feed it lots of air from the bottom.

[Maplewalnut]

So with that said what do most people find the best way is to seal around the bottom? I planned on standing up some arch board or blanket on the inside and try to work some brick around the outside for aesthetic purposes. I am also going to put an inch or two of sand on the concrete floor to protect it from the little hot coals that drop.

[dano2840]

if i am just going to run a blower staight into the back of the fire box can i just get away with keeping the draft door shut? will it blow enough and bounce off the arch front and under the wood or should i duct it so it points right at the bottom of the grates?

[RileySugarbush]

My homemade arch had a sheet metal floor under the grate and about 5 inches off the floor of the sugarhouse. The blower enters from the back through a big rectangular opening. I put a draft/ clean out door on the front but have never opened it.. There is no need to turn and direct the air up if that is the only way it can go. Some have put a firebrick in front of the air inlet to break up the air stream a bit but mine doesn't seem to need it.

There will be very few coals that drop through when the blower is going. There is so much oxygen that they completely burn up. After two full seasons on mine I still haven't needed to clean out the ashes.

[220 maple]

Urban Myth
Hargroves in New Brunswick has 105000 thousand taps. I suspect and extra zero got added. You can watch a nine minute video on YOUTUBE about their operation. For a guy like me with a couple thousand taps I consider these large operation like Mecca. Some place I want to visit sometime so I can be Baptisted in Holy Sugar Water. Just kidding. One of these days I'm going to get there.

Mark 220 Maple

[caseyssugarshack93]

I was on youtube and theres a big sugarer that has 105000 tap in canada i think ? it was crazy they had 10 2300 gal tanks that filled up in a hour it was crazy watch the video if you can find it i typed in maple sugaring. and went thougth the pages


and for the draft i have a blower not a big one but one you would have on a woodstove maybe a little bigger and i just keep the draft door shut and put a row of fire bricks in front and i dont loose any draft. im thinking about putting a bigger one on i have it i just gotta get a conrol and that should make a harder boil. with the blower i have on now its helped out boiling alot. dont really know if im gunna add a bigger one or not. i ran the sap to high last year in my pans so i dont really know how it will boil with the right level so ill do a few boils on the little blower i have and go from there.

[caseyssugarshack93]

sorry 220 maple were talkin about the same maple place :p i didnt read ur post before i put mine.

[danno]

I use a 550 cfm blower on my 3x10 but I'm looking for a bigger blower. It works ok when mounted right to the back of the arch, but I like my blower outside and duct in to the arch - MUCH quieter. When I ran it through 15' duct, I began losing too much air.

If you are pushing good air, you defintely have to seal the arch or you will have smoke and hot ash all over your sugar house (and in your syrup pan). I use wood stove gasket on all my doors and layed fire brick around the bottom of the arch. Also insulated the doors with arch board to keep doors from cracking.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Danno,

You can overcome the 15' of pipe with a high pressure blower. It wouldn't lose any air or slow down.

[Amber Gold]

Thanks John. That's what I figured.

[Brent]

When I had a Half Pint I started adding blowers to try to get it hotter, and I did. The boil rate went up nearly 50%.

BUT I think the amount of wood used DOUBLED. While boiling at night the bottom 4' of the stack glowed cherry red. That's tons of heat going straight up the flu

Last year we got a 2' x 6' and got more boil on less wood. From what I have read you can get more heat from the same amount of wood if you add an air injector somewhere ABOVE the wood. Some commercial sealed arches inject air through port near the top of the doors. Some on the forum have injected air near the top of the slope. This creates a "reburning" like the most efficient wood stoves for home heating. None of the EPA certified stoves put air under the wood.

I have just ordered a stainless air injector pipe from a local fireplace / woodstove dealer to put in the 2 x 6. It comes 25" long - perfect, and is about 1 1/4" diameter and has about 18 holes drilled in it. I have not decided exactly where to mount it but I think I'll put it near the top of the slope at the back of the arch and I think I am going to get more boil in the flu pan and may or may not raise the stack temp, but because the air is not under the wood, I dont expect to burn more, just get more heat from what I burn.

We'll see soon enough