trees that fork or double trees

[markct]

i have a sugarbush that is largely swamp maples, yea not ideal but they are what i have. my question is, i have a good number of trees that are basicly two trees growing from one, like they for at the ground. can i tap these as one tree each, like two 12 inch trees so a tap each? or should i just tap one? some are smaller too like say 8 inch, can i tap just one side and be ok?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I would tap each shoot once unless they are small because if you use the health spouts and don't drill deep and use good tapping sense, you should be able to tap those trees for as long as you ever sugar.

[Russell Lampron]

They are most likely red maples. I have some of those that are in clumps of 5 or six. If they are big enough to put a tap in like 4" or larger tap each one. They are most likely trees that grew out of an old stump and would be considered culls anyway. Get what you can for sap out of them and when they die cut them down and feed them to the evaporator.

[markct]

yea i had been wondering about why they grew that way, so old stumps that sprouted is the likely cause? does this make an inferior tree? or just not as long lived as trees that sprouted normaly? i kinda was thinking of tapping some that are only about 4 inch that were trees i would not care if they died and are in places that they are unlikely to grow into big healthy trees figuring get what i can outa them? so what is diffenent about culls from regular trees?

[Russell Lampron]

Culls are trees that you plan to cut down in the future to make more room for the keepers. Trees that have the potential to break apart in a wind storm or are growing too close together would be culls too. If you are using tubing and are going by them to get to other trees tap them. You don't need to get much sap out of one to pay for the drop.

[Jeff E]

I agree with these guys, tap the 'begeezus' out of those. I have some of these clump trees, (reds, all of them) and if it is 4 inches and has leaves, it will get a tap.

I will end up keeping 1 or 2 per cluster, and I want to get back and cut out the extra 'trees' asap, so the 1 or 2 remaining can start to put on a real crown of leaves.

Remember, it is in the top where the sugar is made, so if a cluster of 5 trees makes 100 gallons of 1.5 % sap, that is the same sugar as 2 trees making 50 gallons of 3% sap, with half the evaporation required.
Work smart, not hard.

[markct]

so does this mean that my double trees i should be looking at cutting off the side in the worst condition?

[royalmaple]

Another thing about the clump trees or stump regeneration is those suckers sprouts are using the same root system as the original tree so they are ahead of the game in that sense of the growing equation.

[Gary R]

Out state forester's have this recommendation when thinning stump sprout's or tree's that have grown in a clump. If you look at the base and there is space between the stems or a "U" looking shape, you can thin a stem. If the stems come together in a "V" do not thin as rot or desease may enter the base of the tree left standing.

[maple flats]

I have a few of those trees in one small section of my woods that I tap. They are all sugars and 5 or 6 have double trunks either from or close to the ground. They are all on what used to be an edge of a clearing. I am not sure if they might have suffered ice or other damage when rather young or some other cause. They are all double trunk and none have 3 or more. I also wonder if they were originally 2 sprouts near or touching each other. I tap both on the ones that are 10" or more, 1 tap each.
I think the problem will sometime happen that one or both will split away and die, and eventually kill the other from decay or disease entering from the now missing trunk.

[markcasper]

I have some stump cluster clumps in my woods and consulted with my private forester. The forester was marking our woods in November and I asked him about cutting off suckers. He already had numerous suckers marked and I finally brought up the question of decay.

He advised thinning ALL clumps of sugar maple to the one best stem. He said that sugar maple has the unique ability to compartmentalize off decay and prevent it from ruining the one left. He said red maple is a different story however. He said in most situations, there will be no spread of decay into sugar maple, whether V or U shaped clumps. I was surprised by this and had always thought otherwise. He also mentioned that the same guidelines exist in terms of not opening up the stand too much at one time, rather over several years time for something such as this. So this would go contrary to other posts I have read regarding decay. Maybe forester 1, Jerry, will chime in??

[maple flats]

I hope you are correct. I asked our state forester the same question about 4 -5 yrs ago and he said do not risk cutting one of the stems on a forked sugar. I however do not know if his expertise is in sugar maples or he might just have answered in a generic answer. He has since retired so I can not ask again making sure to emphasize sugar maples. Please, other foresters or any experts chime in.

[Haynes Forest Products]

One of the problems with sucker trees is that they are very weak structually. When the sprouts grow out of the stump the bark and cambium is all that is holding the sucker tree together until the new wood grows over the old stump. GARY R talked about Vs crothes and U crotches and V crotches tend to have barried bark in them and they tend to fall over easy and are very susceptible to root. I used to do alot of stump grinding and I once did a fence line of 30" old Cottonwoods and they all had 10" centers of dead rotten wood that had old barbwire on them. Asked the owner what that was all about and he said his grampa had cut down trees for the fence posts and they all sprouted and grew into hugh trees just from suckers off the fence post

[forester1]

Mark, your forester was right in that sugar maple can compartmentalize rot better than other species. However a sprout origin tree will still be inferior to a seedling origin tree for other reasons as was said here. But if that is what you have then I would thin clumps. Since it is your woods and you are there often, it is easy to keep an eye on what is happening. You could cut it just before it gets too rotten, but in the meantime you would have sap.