which fitting is the best for tying laterals into the main line?

[dano2840]

hey question before i spend a crap load of money on fittings which ones are the best to take laterals and put them inot the main line.
The tees that take a threaded star fitting
the ones where you have to cut the main line and have 2 nipples coming out from each side
or saddle blocks, (record multifitting)
I was told the saddle blocks dont seal well and arent very good for a vacuum system because they loose so much vacuum, i like the star fittings my self because you can take laterals from any direction, but i want to know what you guys think is the best...
Thanks
Dan

[brookledge]

The ones I use are the single and double manifolds with two straps that hold it to the main line. I also for good luck carry a small tube of silicone gasket maker and will put a small amount on the rubber gasket before appling. They have worked good for me and I use either a single or double depending on what I need. I have used star fittings also but by the time you add the cost of the mainline tee and the star to screw in plus 2 clamps it is about 6 bucks.
Plus when using the star fittings it can pull apart on the main line if your clamps aren't good enough. That can't happen with the others.
I have all of them on vac and have had no problems
Keith

[Haynes Forest Products]

I have tried 2 differant type of clamp type fittings and I dont like them I think they were designed for pressure and used on vacuum. I like the 3/4" X 1/2" threaded fitting. They make them with a longer barb surface and you get alot more area for clamping. I use the SS crimp type clamp and if you put two on the right place you cant pull the fitting apart. Cheap hose clamps dont do the job. They have a dead spot under the screw area that can leak plus alot of the hose clamps you get dont have SS screws so over time the will lossen up or you cant tighten them. The problem with nose clamps is you can only put one on a fitting and with the SS crips you can stagger the crimp and get a leakproof seal. Another trick is after you pusk the fitting all the way on the barb twist it to seat the barbs into the polly then clamp.

[caseyssugarshack93]

Go with the saddles thats what i use and at the end of my mainline i use a star fitting and thats the only place i use one and the rest all my lats are all on saddles. i use the leader ones and they work good and seal good. if ur gunna be on vac thoes ones work good but im sure the other ones do to the leader ones are just the ones my supplier sells. are you going to be on vac and you would have way to much money in star fittings and the tee.


just my two cents

nate

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I don't run vaccum, but just from gravity I can tell you from learning the hard way, the less times you completely cut your mainline, the better off you are because it will pull apart at the barbed fittings where it is cut if it gets stressed and it is a bear to get back together.

[caseyssugarshack93]

i learded the hard way to i figured if by 100ft rolls of mainline cause it was cheaper bad idea... i put 200o feet in and i got about 500 ft in of 100 ft rolls and when i tightined the wire they all pulled apart and i still had good clamps on . the less you cut the better you are. so anyways i went to go get 300ft rolls and now thats all i buy.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

i also use the saddle manifold single and double with the straps on vac and havent had to many problems i dont use any sealer. i have had to go back and tighten the straps

RICH

[caseyssugarshack93]

i take a pair of plairs with me and i put the saddle on hand tight then i take the pliars and squeese and it tightins them up good but i think the leader ones are the only ones u can do like that cause of how the staps are built

[Amber Gold]

Casey,

I think I've seen rolls larger than 300'. I've got 400' rolls of 3/4" and I'm pretty sure I've seen 600 and 1,000'. those 1000' rolls would've been nice becuase no fittings for a complete run...would've been fun unrolling though. I don't recall where I saw those rolls. It was a couple of months ago.

[markct]

i have about 70 trees along a fencline and i have been doing them with drops right off the mainline with the 4 way lamb fittings, they are cheaper than the star and tee and more compact, usualy there are atleast 2 trees ya can reach off of each fitting with drop lines on about 3 to 5 ft long. seems to be working ok but in spring i will know for sure!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I think Theron or Royal Maple one suggested that when you do connect mainlines to use two hose clamps on each side of the fitting vs one and it would hold a ton better. Makes a lot of sense and I think it would work much better.

[caseyssugarshack93]

yeah i know theres bigger rolls but i like the 300ft ones cause i have someone pull and i have hold the roll and keep spinning so the bigger ones are a pain if unless i bough a 1000 cause them come on a real but i just get the 300ft ones cause there easy to handle for us anyway. i get my tubing at tsc next year if i get a new bush gunna try out the blue its a little more money but we wanna try it. and this year on vac i put 2 clamps on each side for extra help on the vac leaks


nate

[802maple]

I personally like to use the double strap saddles and I have bought mainline on 5000 foot rolls so I don't have any connections. When I have connections I use 2 clamps on a side and I use a fine stainless steel wire under the clamps accross the connection so they won't come apart.

[Parker]

For mainline entrances I use the CDL mainfolds,,they have their problems,,they will loosen up,you have to make sure you get them on right and tight, the gasket will leak a littel once in a while, BUT you can overcome these problems,,I do not like the star enterances for the reasons others have stated #1-you have a lot of cuts-and posibel places for the line to come apart #2-where you have each enterance their is 3 potential places for BIG vacuum leals (each side of the fitting and where the star screws in) I do have to say I have never tried the strap mainline enterances-they might be something I like-just never used them.
Like 802 maple said-if you are useing the star fittings OR where you mainline is connected together uses 2 clamps on each side of the connection then take a piece of wire and tie it off to one outside hose clamp then wrap it around the other outside hose clamp, I go around the 4 clamps a couple of times,,now you have wire holding the hose clamps and in turn the connection together.
A couple of tricks I have learned from others for the CDL entrances,
#1 and the most important is use a hook fitting at the end of you lateral line, this fitting hooks on your mainline wire, then there is a 12" long section of tubing that goes from the hook fitting into the saddel fitting, this serves a couple of uses, it puts no side pull on the fitting (most important) and when under vacuum you can til this small section of tubing up and wacth the bubbels to see if you have a leak on that lateral run.
#2 when installing the cdl fitting you will see there is a grove for the mainline wire to go in on the top of the fitting-make sure you drill your hole in the mainline so the fitting will be seat with the wire on top of the fitting
#3 after the fitting is in place I take a pair of vise grips and gently squeez the fitting straps together THEN take a pices of wire and wrap it around the bottom of the saddel to make sure it wont come apart.

During the season and especially at the begening of the season when we are trying to get the vacuum levels up to snuff (over 20") we do spend a lot of time checking saddels-and they are often at fault-need a squeeze or a new gasket..
During the time when we are isolating vacuum leaks it is critical (for us) to be able to isolate one lateral mainline at a time which we do thru shutting off all the vacuum booters-therefor lateral mainlines on the system EXCEPT FOR the lateral mainline you are checking,,this way you have all the vacuum that pump will pull concentrated on that one lateral main,,,when you do this it is easy to find you leaks cause they will be very loud......this is what has worked for us..... sorry for being long winded

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I haven't used the saddles and just curious why you couldn't use a hose clamp on each side of it and a little silicon to advoid any vacuum leaks for several years or will the hose clamps damage the saddles??

[maplecrest]

hose clamps work but think of the cost of each clamp you use. parkers wire tie is the way to go. if that does not work then i resort to clamps. or a new fitting

[mapleman3]

When you run 1/2" on gravity like me you don't have much choice to cut in fittings... it would be nice if they had saddles, I too hate chopping up my main line, and I'll have a lot of it out there as 1/2"

[Haynes Forest Products]

Well it sounds like the saddles are the way to go.................they leak at times,clamps dont always hold,Silcone whenever possible,replace after a couple years,when mainline twists and they end up upside down you cant twist upright, put shims under saddle to get better fit. I dont have a dog in the fight but I just like my simple barb fitting and SS crimp clamps.

[Dave Y]

I use the entratube saddle from D&G.They haye a double strap on them and tighen down very well when you squeeze the staps with pliers. They come in single or double entrances. I allways use a hook contector and hook the lateral to the wire to hold all of the tension. I have not had them leak when they are tighened properly. How ever if not tightened correctly they will leak even on gravity. I will say this, most of this stuff is pretty much presonal preferance and common sense. Use what works for you and dont over think what you are doing,it will get you in trouble!

[Haynes Forest Products]

I do think Dave is right dont over think things and I will say I do experiment with alot of things when it comes to the maple sickness. I think alot of the plastic fittings are not UV protected so they go bad over time.

[dano2840]

i like the star fittings and i secure the threads with teflon pipe tape, i dont have one of those fancy pipe taps for drillint the hole for the saddle so i used a drill with a self centering/ starting tip on the bit ( it doesnt "draw" all over the pipe) it worked ok, my lines arent very long (my longest might be 400') and i have 3 and 3 branch lines so there isnt much main line but there is abotu 400 taps so i dont think i will have to worry about vacuum loss to much but in most places the 2 way saddles just wont be enough i need at least 3 entrances in others the saddles would work nice, i think i will go in a combo of all of them, besides i all ready have like 15 tees w/ the 1/2" thread to take the stars, oh and not all 1000ft rolls are on a spooll mine wasnt, and they are a BEAR to deal with i ended up cutting 200 ft sections of and connecting them, i tighten my wire firstthen tie the pipe to it so it doesnt pull my fittings apart and it works well

[dano2840]

yeah i know theres bigger rolls but i like the 300ft ones cause i have someone pull and i have hold the roll and keep spinning so the bigger ones are a pain if unless i bough a 1000 cause them come on a real but i just get the 300ft ones cause there easy to handle for us anyway. i get my tubing at tsc next year if i get a new bush gunna try out the blue its a little more money but we wanna try it. and this year on vac i put 2 clamps on each side for extra help on the vac leaks


nate

the blue is the way to go if you have the money, it is more expensive but is worth it, its alot easier to deal with and more flexable than black water pipe, idid all my bush last year with the blue and when i got into this new bush i got a really good deal on a 1000ft roll of black wtr pipe paid $100 for it and i was not used to how much more rigid it was, definatly buy the blue if you have the money, plus you can see through it, and see how full it is and if you dont have enough slope on it,

[maple flats]

All of mine in the past have been black water tubing but this year i am doing the Blue for the above stated reasons and because it keeps the sap cooler. I will not replace my black til it needs to be replaced but I think at this time it will be blue when replacement is called for.

[dano2840]

i wish my whole woods was light blue laterals and all but i pd 100$ for 1000ft on blk wtr pipe and 30$ for about 600ft of nevr used 1/2 and about 5 rolls of older but never used lamb lateral (dark Blue) so iwont have this bush all light blue but my lil bush behind the house is well our side is the nieghbors is the stuff i bought this year for 30$, couldnt believe thats what my cousin charged me for it he said he was never gunna use it so i mine as well

[sapman]

I'm glad I went with 30P blue mainline. I considered black waterpipe, as it would have saved $700-$1000 on my project. But there's nothing like pulling out the pipe and having it lay nice and flat in 20~ degree weather. I went with all 1000' rolls on the 3/4". Made a plywood platform that bolted on top of the wire spinning jenny, with long angle bolts off the top to keep the spool in line while unrolling. Works like a charm! Thanks to Bruce at Leader for the idea.