Just a few Design Questions

[MaplePancakeMan]

I had the contractor here today to put a sugar house addition on to the barn.


18'wx 24'L will be the addition and the whole barn will be getting a metal roof
What do i put up on the inside of the roof for moisture issues?

How big should the cupola be for my 2x6 i was thinking 2.5 by 4... which is a little bigger then my flue pan.

I am gonna put two 2' tall by 4' wide windows on each 24' side will that be enough? Should i be considering any sort of special lighting for the moisture?

Its going to have sliding doors toward to wood shed side and a swing door to the other side to get in.

This size should leave me 8' on all sides of the evaporator if i center it.... but do i need to center it or could it be more to one side and still be able to use the cupola?

I know what i want for the most part just really looking for the things i should consider. He told me that they could have it done by Feb 1st Which to me sounds awesome! Even though i'm probably not sugaring this year due to the storm damage but it'll be nice to have it done!

[Jeff E]

No hoods on the pans?

[PATheron]

On my shed I roofed it with 1" rough lumber so the moisture wouldnt bother and it worked good. I dont run hoods either. I built the cupola as big as I could so if I got a bigger evap it would still be bigger. Kind of got to see what looks proportional to the building too. If you center the evap you can use a roof jack that is for the peak and if you go to the side youll have to use the other kind either way youll have to tell them the pitch of the roof. For lighting I went with a sealed light from an electrical store. The kind you put the bulb inside the glass housing. They are a little salty, I think like 25 bucks a piece but work good. No cold weater probs. Just the way I did a few things. Theron

[tuckermtn]

we have our evap set up slightly off center and the cupola works reasonibly well...we are retro-fitting to put 1" pine shiplap siding on the underside of our aluminum roof...

with windows its a proportion thing, but we have only two smallish windows in our sugarhouse for 20' long walls, but it never seems like there is enough natural light in the sugarhouse.

[peacemaker]

copula should be atleast the same size as the whole evap

[Maplewalnut]

My feeling is the cupola can never be too long and you can never have enough windows. I made my cupola 6 feet long and wish I went a little bigger. Windows and doors I did right. I have a bank of three windows down low and two smaller ones up high on the south and east wall. Talk about sunlight! I also installed 6 foot wide double glass doors on each side to facilitate moving big things in and out of the sugarhouse (Like evaporators, feed tanks and an RO in the future etc.)

As far as lights, I use just incandescent with a porcelin base and have had no problems. One note that a state inspector gave me was that if lighting is over the pans or in 'close proximity' they would expect the lighting to have a cover which prevents glass from the bulb from falling into the product if one should break. Makes sense.

[peacemaker]

the other thing to remeber with the cupe is if u make the whole thing 2x6 u need the door openings to measure the same when open meaning they have to be atleast 12 inchs tall

[MaplePancakeMan]

thanks guys, for all the ideas... def some things to think about.


So i should probably go with a 2x6 cupola... i don't really think i'll ever go any bigger in evaporator.

I'll put two 2x4 windows on each side. I'm still debating on what to do with the under part of the roof so i don't get condensation or much of it.


I'm also putting in a 18' work table in the back with shelves underneath and a sink do do all my bottling in and i think i'll put a bench in along side the evaporator on one side for visitors.

[cncaboose]

more windows is always better. Cupola at least as big as the evap unless if you have a hood then that changes. Under the roof put all wood like Theeeeron or use sheets of styrofoam insulation to keep the condensation down. We used 3/4" insulation sheets. I don't know what your storage is like but I put a big sliding door on one end and can park my tractor inside beside the evap when we aren't sugaring. Make sure your stack has good clearance from all rafters and other flammable materials. I built first and then put in the evap and had to redo one area of roof. Better to do it right the first time.

[Haynes Forest Products]

My evaporator room is small at times when your in the go moad and people are walking around with a bucket full of hot sap. More than once someone trying to pass by gets there coat or bibs caught on the drawoff handle or float box.

[tstew]

Not that I am expert but 2 years ago I put up a new sugar house. My evaporator is offset to the side by like 18-20". I didn't want to frame out a section of the ridge board for the stack to go through. I prefer the ridge to be continuous for strucutural reasons especially with the added weight of the coupula. I also do not have a hood and use just the cheap lights and bulbs and have had no problem with them. I built my roof opening 4'x8' majority of the days this is okay somedays not depends on the draft. Hope this helps.

[Hal]

[QUOTE=but it never seems like there is enough natural light in the sugarhouse.[/QUOTE]

At certain times of the day it is possible to have way too much natural light. I have a problem with the late afternoon sun coming in the window and blinding me when I am working on that side of the rig.

[maple flats]

When I had a 2x6 evap I built the sugarhouse and made the cupola 2'x6'. I have spaced rough cut boards that steel roofing is attached to. As far as steam getting out it was ok but it did rain inside while boiling but not real bad. I then changed to a 3x8 and knew I needed to do something different. I made a hood which covers the 3x6 flue pan and extends to cover all but about 4" of the syrup pan. Since mine is a raised flue this left the syrup pan about 8-10" higher. Additionally I cut the hood higher so it is about 14" high above the syrup pan. On the hood I have 2 10" steam stacks which extend up into the cupola but end there. I now get better steam removal and no rain than when I had the 2x6 and I still have the same size cupola. Even if you can't get fancy make a very simple, basic hood, you will be better off.

[MaplePancakeMan]

Thanks guys!

I haven't even a clue where to start with making a hood... it seems simple in theory but i'm sure its much more meticulous and involved then i think.

There has to be a drip edge yes and that gets piped out of the hood to a bucket or drain. then it has to be able to be either suspended or latched on to the lip of the pans? I would probably leave my syrup pan open. would the bottom that latches on need a gasket to keep it sealed tightly?


Theres so much work to be done! I'm trying to stay organized and have a to do list but it just keeps getting longer.

So what i've done on the original plans is to have the Cupola the same length as the evap and a little wider. The sides will have two windows centered with 8' between them and they will be 4' long by 2' high. the height of the roof will be aprox 30' to the peak will i have still raining issues or will this give it enough time to disperse before it gets too the cupola?

[mapleman3]

MapleFlats, reading your post makes me feel a bit better about my situation... the same as yours was... raining in the SH, now with a full hood and 2 10" stacks to the coupla made for the 2x6 I should be fine


MaplePancakeman, the thing you need to do is look at one close up... see how it is made... I made one for my 2x6 years back.. it worked great except the condensate formed between the hood and the pan and dripped down the side of the pan... so I should have made a lip on the inside... my new hood on my 3x8 does.... I made my 2x6 hood out of aluminum and bent a lot of it on a siding break! and pop rivited it together... it did the job!! and increased my boiling rate and gave me around 5 gals of hot water an hour for cleaning!

[Dave Y]

The best place to start when making a steam hood is finding someone who can build it for you ,or buy a manufactured one you can't go wrong

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Maple Pancake Man,
For years we had a simple home made hood over our 4x12 wood fired. We built a frame out of 1x4 that was slightly wider than the evaporator and tapered up to the cupalo. It was about 14 inches above the pans. We stapled plastic sheeting to this and about every 3 years or so replaced the sheeting.
condensation dripped directly to the floor as the hood was wider than the evaporator. Hood was high enough for us to work under but close enough to the pans to catch most of the steam. Later we added eave trough lip to edge of frame to carry the condensate to one end where we caught it in a sap bucket for use cleaning.

[Hop Kiln Road]

Maple Pancake Man - Take at look at my photobucket. 2009 shows where I replace my cupola doors with hinged windows. It's actually a Thomas Jefferson idea; he used to read in his bed underneath the window cupola at Monticello. In the 2008 file there are some pictures inside my hood showing the condensate gutter. The overall design of a sugarhouse should be functionally proportionate as free advertising if nothing else. Bruce

[Haynes Forest Products]

My hood is light guage Aluminum and I have a drip edge all around the flue pan and I put in a pipe system for condensate. The weird thing is I only get small dribbles of water. I can see inside the hood and it has very little condensate that forms on the metal could it be that my hood warms up to the point that the steam and hood are close in temp that it doesnt cause condensing? I maybe get 5 gallons every 10 hrs boiling

[MaplePancakeMan]

Not that i know very much about these things but could it be that your hood isn't sloped enough and the condensate drips back into the pan? i was under the impression that it flows out at a pretty constant trickle once you're ripping and roaring. It could have something to do with the temperature though, but it would have to be pretty hot inside you're sugar house

[peacemaker]

i would have to say haynes that your right the alum is warming up fast ...

[RileySugarbush]

This is an interesting subject. I get lots of condensate, but don't know how much is from the hood and how much from the preheater. At startup, when the hood is cool I'm sure we get a lot of condensate on the inside. After things warm up, I bet most is from the preheater which is always cold. The temp inside the sugarhouse is key.

[mapleman3]

mine was aluminum and it always gave me lots of condensate...well at least I thought 5 gal per hour for a 2x6 was good just off the back pan and preheater....

the 3x8 i have now is SS and with the extra hood over and above the syrup pan I bet I will double that amount at minimum

so it will be interesting to see if there is a diff between using alum and SS

[Haynes Forest Products]

The hood does get past the touching stage and I dont have a preheater in the hood mine is a boiler type from the flue gas. When I open the hood hatch and look in you dont see water raining down or alot of dripping. I do have heat in the room T shirts and open doors thats for sure. There is always the chance that out of dumb luck we made a cheap,light well working hood that I alone can take off and replace.

[brookledge]

On my hood (aluminum) When it is up to temp you can hardly even notice any condensate dripping off the hood. But the pre heater drips like crazy I get somewhere around 50 gal per hour.
Keith

[bmbmkr]

I am building a small steam hood for my small arch. My hood is 24" w x48" long and 20" tall. It slopes in at the top to a width of 20". I have a gutter in the bottom to drain any condensation. It covers 4 of the 5 steam pans in a home made arch. ( 2 55 gal drums welded together. Bricked , insulated and AUF. Anyway my main question is, how much stack? I should be able to get 5-10 gph boil on 4 steam pans under the hood. Is there a formula for steam volume? I found 6" telscoping smoke stack pretty reasonable. My hood is all aluminum that I already had, stack needs to be cheap too. I don't know whether to go 6", 8" or fab a 8"x14" square duct. I have another sheet of AL that is 4x12'! Thanks for any input on this subject, hopefully someone sees it on this old thread.