Homemade steam hoods?

[Clan Delaney]

I've read some hints here recently regarding this, so I thought I'd get specific...

Has anyone here made a homemade attempt at a steam hood? And by homemade I mean not made out of metal. I'm talking solid wood or wood frame and plastic (or something else I haven't thought of). I'm thinking of doing one for pre-heating. If you did the same, how well did it work for you?

[danno]

Clan - just curious - why not metal or aluminum?

[brookledge]

Clan
Someone a while back was looking into making one out of wood. A wooden one will be alot heavier. I would think that after a while to wood will start to break down from all of the exspansion and contraction due to the steam. And when the temps drops below frezzing the moisture in the wood will freeze causing expansion, making it weaker. Other things to keep in mind is the steam that condensates that isn't collected that came in contact with the wood can give the syrup an off flavor.
You certainly wouldn't want to paint or coat the wood because if it peeled it will end up in your syrup and you don't want paint chips boiling for hours in the pans.
Like Danno said why not make one out of al.
Keith

[Clan Delaney]

Clan - just curious - why not metal or aluminum?

1. Very little $$$
2. can't weld

[Bucket Head]

I can't help with the lack of $$$. We all suffer with that.

I know guys who have made hoods from aluminum flashing. To form it, they bent it over the edge of their workbench, and rivited it together. Some used a siding brake. Know anyone with one of those?

So what if you can't weld. Who do you know that does know how? I like the barter system. I use it all the time.

What do you do when your not syrupin'? Maybe you could trade services with a welder.

There are many different ways to get a hood built. I just don't think a wooden one is the way to go.

Steve

[gmcooper]

Wonder if a hood from plexiglass or Lexan would work. Doubt it would be cheaper but it might look kind of cool?

[danno]

One of the traders (or more) has plexi around his syrup pan. Pretty cool.

Clan, I made this first one for about $100. That covered the full sheet of metal, ferring, steel strapping, bolts. No welding. I imagine it would be a bit more due to increasing metal costs. May be worth to pay a visit to the junk yard for some scap metal or your local sheet metal shop - they may cut you a break if you want a piece from a sheet they have already cut.

For temporary, I guess a 2x4 frame with 3 mil plastic over the top may work. Still have to duct out the steam though.

This covered my 30x8 end to end. Was a little rough, but worked fine.

IMG]http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee56/littlejohn170/100_0497.jpg[/IMG]

[Clan Delaney]

One of the traders (or more) has plexi around his syrup pan. Pretty cool.

Clan, I made this first one for about $100. That covered the full sheet of metal, ferring, steel strapping, bolts. No welding. I imagine it would be a bit more due to increasing metal costs. May be worth to pay a visit to the junk yard for some scap metal or your local sheet metal shop - they may cut you a break if you want a piece from a sheet they have already cut.

For temporary, I guess a 2x4 frame with 3 mil plastic over the top may work. Still have to duct out the steam though.

This covered my 30x8 end to end. Was a little rough, but worked fine.

IMG]http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee56/littlejohn170/100_0497.jpg[/IMG]

My thoughts were actually for a 1x2 frame (2x4 is probably overkill) and 4 mil plastic on the inside, so that the wood doesn't come into direct contact with the steam. Possibly stainless staples as well - no rusting.

I do like the aluminum and rivets idea though. That's do-able.

[danno]

Hi Clan - how were you planning to vent the steam? Put a couple of cross member 1x2's across the frame to support some duct work?

[Haynes Forest Products]

There is always the galvanized sheet metal option. When you get the rig set up make a mock up of the hood with cardboard and rework it till its just right. Keep in mind that a hood does not have to be big and bulky to work. If your going to put a preheater in it then plan on the extra space. YOU DONT NEED IT 18" HIGH Once you have the mock up bring it to a old timer sheet metal shop and it could be made out of scraps. I think a flex pipe from Home Depot would be cool so you could swing it out of the way.

[markct]

clan, what i did is take 1 by 1 aluminum channel and weld the corners together to form a frame that outlined the top of my pan, and added a drain this is the condensation drip edge and also the bottom frame the rest is just formed with the brake and riveted together with pop rivets. ya can do alot with pop rivets and aluminum cuts with a skilsaw and a fine blade, infact i remember touring the summit trail factory and seeing them cutting 1/4 inch aluminum sheets for tractor trailer sidewals with just a regular dewalt skilsaw! infact even the 3/4 thick i beams they were cutting that way

[peacemaker]

u can cut aluminum with a miter saw like was said with a fine tooth blade or get whats called a non ferous blade we use to cut aluminum door sills all day long clan supper sappy has a hood just like u are planning he does have a coupala and i think and he can chime in he has just plan gutter around the bottom ...

[maple flats]

I also made one out of aluminum. I made the drip channel out of 1x1 channel, mitered the corners for 3 corners and made the last fit so i have a 6" channel out to the side and put a drop channel to keep it hitting the bucket. To join these I used an aluminum rod and a propane torch. The rod is available at TSC and likely other places. (I first used the rod to repair damaged irrigation pipe in my field irrigation system and liked it) After making the frame I bought 3- 36" x 96" sheets of aluminum sheet which with the channel ran about $125. I got the lighest gauge I could get which was still slightly too stiff in longer dimentions to bend properly in my aluminum trim brake but with extra clamps to hold the clamping jaws tight I managed to get it done. I then riveted the hood together with pop rivets. My hood is tight fitting on my 3x6 flue pan and it extends as a raised hood over my syrup pan. The overall hood length is about 92" and 3' wide. It took me a day to make and I have less than $150 into it including the alum channel, sheet and the rod (just like brazing aluminum except it is all alum.) Before this next season i am planning to add a pre-heater in another 6 or 8" tall rectangle between the flue pan and the hood. BY the way, I also made the hood so i raise it with a winch, I have a steel cable attached to each corner which goes perfectly straight up to the ceiling joists and all 4 are routed thru pulleys so I just crank the small winch and the hood raises, and crank it back down and it sets in the right spot. I have even had my 8 yr old raise the hood when I sometimes show visitors what it looks like in the flue pan.
I did all of this and it looks good and most people think it was store bought. (except real pro's) and I did not weld anything. Actually, the only part that needs to be water tight is the drip channel, everything else has no need to be because any leaks just let a little air into the hood which goes up the stacks (I have 2 steam stacks)

[brookledge]

Unless you collect the condensate from running back into the flue pan why bother making a hood. Once you use the energy to convert the sap to steam you surely don't want it back into the pan. So if you are going to constuct one out of wood and plastic be sure to collect the condensate and pipe it out of the hood.
Keith

[tapper]

Clan,

I made a hood for a 2x6 out of sheet aluminum from the local scrap yard. I formed it on a borrowed trim brake and rivited it together. I had maybe 6 hours and less than $20.00 in it.

[Clan Delaney]

These are some great ideas. Thanks guys! I hadn't thought of riveting something together. This hood is sounding less and less expensive and more and more aluminum.

[maple flats]

Clan, I think you are on the right track now!! Good luck.

[tapper]

Clan,
If you go shopping at a scrap yard dont rule out sheet stainless and galvenized will work too. The only problem with stainless is it is harder to work. bends hard and drills hard.but the hard work always pays off. Make a nice looking hood and when you decide to upgrade and sell your rig it could mean a few hundred or more for it.

[Clan Delaney]

My only reserve with scrapyard fare... where's it been? What's been on it? Oil? Worse? Gives me the willies just thinking about it.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Its easy to clean with a good strong solvent brake clean will cut about anything and it leaves no residue you can eat off of it. Now if you want the willies start a thread about how people clean out their preheaters after they build them to get the flux out. YIKES!!!!!

[tapper]

The scrap yard I go to is owned and operated by 1 man. He usually saves stuff out for me and he knows where most stuff comes from. The aluminum I used was the skin of a large refridgeration unit. It was cover with foam insulation but peeled right off. I cleaned the aluminum with aluma-brite and it was just like new. If you are lucky enough to find stainless not much will taint it and it cleans much easier. The small cost of scrap yard finds makes it fun and affordable to build your own syrup equipment.

[Clan Delaney]

Its easy to clean with a good strong solvent brake clean will cut about anything and it leaves no residue you can eat off of it. Now if you want the willies start a thread about how people clean out their preheaters after they build them to get the flux out. YIKES!!!!!

So, you're saying that I probably shouldn't be using my sap buckets for kitchen compost in the off season?

:rolleyes:

[Pete S]

Depending on how large you need, look in the local scrap yard/bin for an old metal cabinet/wardrobe,...........bend and cut to fit. I see these with some frequency at the Towns yard.

If you need something much smaller,...............how'bout the top of an old gas grill?

There's always something that a maple addict can use from the toss outs of others.

Pete

[peacemaker]

i was thinking the same if u are using a small enough rig why not a kitchen hood or a upside down sink ... or some of your chaffing pans

[Haynes Forest Products]

tessirsfarm:read on

[Maple/Cherry]

Use basswood to make a frame and cover it with plastic. Basswood dosen't have and sap or pitch that will leach out and get in the amber gold.

[smitty76]

Use basswood for the frame and cover it with aluminum flashing. It cleans up nice and is rigid enough to put veiwing doors and you can use standard duck flanges to hook up your stacks to.

[Smitty]

Hey, if any body is thinking about making a preheater,Jerome has a link to a web site that has all the info (and some) you need.

http://nrs.fs.fed.us/pub/4640 (Just thought i would pass on some great info)

[Father & Son]

Right now I'm in the process of making plans and gathering supplies to make a steam hood. I read alot of the old posts. I originally was planing on using 304 stainless but to get bright anneal is very expensive ($350+? for a 4x8 sheet) so I changed to thinking possibly a milled or brushed finish ($140 for a 4x8 sheet). Then I found some aluminum sheet that had a mirror finish, looked just like stainless, and it was only $75 for a 4x8 sheet. Aluminum oxidizes over time and I wondered if there would be problems where the aluminum hood and the stainless pans came in contact (chemical reaction)? Would there be a corrosion issue that would affect the pans? The food industry is moving away from aluminum and going to stainless, is this an issue? Any and all suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim

[Haynes Forest Products]

My hood is alum and it started out nice and shiney as a rolled finish could be but over time it dulled due to heat dirt and constant wiping with a rag BUT it still looks clean and sanitary. There is no reaction between the two metals and it does not oxedize over the summer winter does not turn white like alum spouts and its 5 years old. I would use it. Keep in mind that your not cooking with it just using it as a exhaust hood.

[tuckermtn]

on a somewhat related note- I was looking at copper pipe yesterday for preheater use and noticed there are two different types of copper at the Gnome Depot- "red" and "Blue" copper- what is the difference and what would be appropriate for the pipe inside a steam hood?

-thanks-

eric

[Grade "A"]

Tuckermtn, I think that the only difference is one is softer than the other. I would used the cheaper of the two.



I just found this:

Type K: domestic water below grade (green)
Type L: domestic water above grade (blue)
Type M: hydronic heat (red)
Type DWV: wastewater (yellow)

[DavyJones]

I had a friend in the HVAC business bend this up for me from some galvanized.
It's over sized but tiw worked out great. I was able to leave this lifted off my pan a good 12" and still collect all the steam. Once it got hot it drew pretty good.

These are in google sketchup. He did a "Pittsburgh seam" on the 2 front pieces to join the entire thing together.

There are a couple different version this is the one I built. The other versions have smaller sides and also have the stack coming out the side. Steam Hood Plans (http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=f480aabf38d56364fe99002354e8b16e)


Steam Hood Pictures (http://www.jonzilla.com/thebittners/dispphotos.asp?path=pictures/2009\Maple Syrup Season/)

Let me know if you have any suggestions or questions
David

[Haynes Forest Products]

Tuckermtn If you look at the thickness you will find the thinner is the cheaper. I have some baseboard tube that is even thinner and Its because it doesnt have the same pressure requierments and the heat transfer alot quicker due to its thickness.

[lpakiz]

Yeah, I just got home from our local Big Box building center. There was chart there by the copper pipe which had 4 colors and the two colors in stock gave the wall thickness--that seemed to be the difference. Like someone said--the thinner wall is the cheapest.

[moeh1]

These is more difference between them:
M is tempered, while L has been annealed and is soft. Not sure what the heat might do to Type M under the hood?

Type M
is a thin walled pipe. It is the most common type of copper tube sold, used mainly behind walls inside homes to route water from the service line and water heater to the fixtures. Trunk lines are typically run in 3/4-in. type M copper with 1/2-in. type M branching away to serve individual fixtures.


Type 'L' (hard or soft)
for thicker wall tube, considered standard piping for use for water services inside and out, especially outside or wherever the pipe will be exposed.

[Haynes Forest Products]

When it comes to preheaters thin is the best for heat transfer and that is what we want.

[moeh1]

I can see thickness being an issue if it was stainless, but copper characteristics are much different.
The heat transfer coefficient for water is less than 1, stainless is about 14, but copper is almost 400 at the boiling point of water, so the copper should be almost transparent in the heat transfer loop.
To me that indicates a desire for more, smaller diameter lines to increase the surface area of sap touching a copper wall.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Moeh1 Now lets think about that for a moment......bigger pipe = more sap in the pipe moving at a slower rate. Smaller pipe = less sap moving at a higher rate.
Think about it this way the sap is like a train and the heat is like passangers on a train The longer the train/sap is in the station the more heat can get on the train/sap. Now one might say that all you need to do is increase the numbers of smaller pipes to equal the amount of volume and flow but then we must consider friction more pipe , more fittings, restricting the flow.

[michiganfarmer]

my supplier says he can get a stainless hood made for my 3x12 wiht a door on each side for less than $700

[michiganfarmer]

I had a friend in the HVAC business bend this up for me from some galvanized.


I used to have s very similar steam hood, but when I got licensed I learned that galvanised is prohibited in Michigan